Favorite Premix Oil and Ratio

Discussion in '2 smokers' started by craydds, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Extended running on a dyno, produces very strange results in relation to 2T motors, especially so if very thin autolube oils are being used, whose ability to transfer heat is a lot less than proper pre-mix only fully synthetic, which I am starting to think are not available in the US now due to greenwash related to low smoke products?
  2. stainlesscycle

    stainlesscycle Long timer

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    that's all you got? geez, i expected more. now it's greenwash eh? pre-mix only is available. as stated a bazillion times, we are posting what works. you are posting flimsy hypotheticals.
  3. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Your have already made yourself look pretty silly with the BS cut and paste stuff you have posted on this thread!

    Castrol XR77 is the full synthetic replacement for A747 a 2T pre mix only synthetic/castor blend, which has indeed ceased production.

    One of the major advantages of XR77 is that it has been designed with the use of modern fuels in mind, and will provide far more accurate plug colour readings, than any other 2T oil currently available.

    As outlined numerous times in this thread, mix ratios are directly related to heat being generated, and if you are using a proper full synthetic pre-mix only race oil, such as XR77, its perfectly ok to use half the amount of oil, that would be required if a thinned down autolube type is used.

    I guess its difficult/impossible to obtain a proper full synthetic pre-mix only race oil in the US, as they all seem to contain PIB low smoke additives, and the solvent content that goes with the additives? Greenwash I think is the reason for this, and is something that gladly hasnt hit too hard here in the UK.....................yet!
  4. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Please post up a link to a full synthetic pre-mix only 2T race oil currently available in the US. No low smoke 2T oil, which is Jaso, API, or ISO rated, is fully synthetic as all contain PIB additives, as well as solvent content. You are posting up information about autolube oils, which while they will certainly work at 32:1, wont work anywhere near as well as a full synthetic at a far leaner ratio.
  5. slideways

    slideways permanent ex-pat

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    There you go. If it works at 32:1 why use less?
    We don't want less HP and shorter maintenance intervals that 100:1/ 80:1 ratios produce!
    http://www.spectro-oils.com/platinum-sx-321/
    Spectro
    2 Stroke Oil
    Platinum SX 32:1
    Platinum SX 32:1 100% Racing Synthetic is the ultimate two-cycle pre-mix engine lubricant, formulated specifically for use in modern two-cycle moto-cross racing motorcycles equipped with exhaust power valves requiring a 32:1 pre-mixed fuel-to-oil mixture. SX Platinum provides virtually smokeless operation and residue-free engine cleanliness. Meets all known motorcycle manufacturers’ warranty requirements and recommendations and exceeds JASO FD, ISO-EGD + and API TC.
  6. stainlesscycle

    stainlesscycle Long timer

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    no. i have explained this several times, but you don't read. here it is again. you basically advocate that you can mix 1/2 as much oil if you use premix only type oil.


    50:1 is 2.56 ounces to a gallon. if my premix "auto-lube" is 70% oil, and 30% solvent, i am getting 1.792 ounces of oil, and .768 of solvent. so 1.792 ounces of oil to a gallon

    100:1 is 1.28 ounces to a gallon this is your "100% pre-mix oil"

    i am getting more lubrication at 50:1 than 100:1 that is if my oil is a full 30% solvent- if my oil is 10% solvent (msds says 10%-30%). i am getting 2.304 ounces per gallon of oil. i'm using twice the ratio, but getting MORE oil.

    the only time i ever foul plugs is the first plug after a rebuild. after that i switch them just for the hell of it. and security i guess. i've fouled 1 plug in a race in 2 years. i've done well over a 100 races in that last 2 years. the plug foul was because the ignition stopped firing consitently. not due to oil. i probably have 100 plugs here that are still good, and have 1 hour on them. plugs are cheap.

    no. as stated, the amount of 'base oil' (for lack of a better term) is MORE in autolube oil when ratio's are doubled. why would a pre-mix oil work any better? if you do the math, you can adjust for a 'pre-mix only' oil and still get the same amount of base oil (say 32:1 autolube=50:1 pre-mix). BUT it's still the same goddamn lubricant (in essense). when ratio of each oil is figured so the 'base oil' is the same ounces, they are virtually identical. your ratio can in no way be better. the fact that you're getting astronomically thin via ratio (100:1) is why there is LESS horsepower, and LESS lubrication with your ratios. this is why, as stated, VIRTUALLY NO ONE RACING (aside from you) runs 100:1.

    there is pre-mix only, non smoke reducing oil available in the usa. we just really haven't mentioned any (afaik) because no one mentioned using them (and i found no need to seek them out. what works iis what works.). i'm pretty sure in the uk very few runXR77 either. it's extremely pricey, and you are not getting more for the money via the cost per use ratio. maybe it's you who has fallen victim to advertising bs. just because XR77 is twice (or more) expensive than everything else out there, doesn't make it any better.
  7. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    I have outlined the exact reasons why its preferable to use a proper full synthetic pre-mix only race oil, over a solvent type autolube type many times now.

    But as the tree huggers seem to mean you cant get proper full synthetic pre-mix only 2T oils in the US now, I can see the reason for staying with the autolube stuff.

    Here in the UK we can get Castrol XR77, which seems far superior to the low smoke, high solvent products available in the US?
  8. stainlesscycle

    stainlesscycle Long timer

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    you sure have. and you've been proven wrong many times now.

    what did slideways just post? you even quoted it. did you read it? we have plenty of choices, of which there is pre-mix only.. we just choose what works in the real world. not magical mystery twin-shocker world. let me guess you're gonna turn it into usa treehuggers versus smarter uk people? give me a break.
  9. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Firstly if you have never tried running a proper pre-mix only oil, at reduced mix ratio, then nothing I can post here will clarify the many advantages that will result.

    The thing that seems to be getting missed here, is that an autolube system is running approximately 200:1 ratio at tickover, and maybe 15:1 WOT. This means that the type of lubricant designed to suit an autolube system, is nothing like ideal for a pre-mix machine, and there is need to use far more oil than is really required, purely as a result of the lack of suitability, and to prevent engine damage in high load conditions.

    Pre-mix only oils are much lower viscosity than autolube types, and as well as improved corrosion protection, this also means better heat transfer, and extended piston ring life. Up to now I have seen no credible reason to give up using pre-mix oil, and change to an autolube type (other than lower cost perhaps?).

    Castrol XR77 is very possibly the best 2T oil available currently, and I think is the only one specifically designed to help with providing more accurate plug colour readings, when Efuels are being used. In terms of cost its a little more than the big name autolube products here in the UK, but if you are a serious competitor why use anything other than the best oil?
  10. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    I have not seen any 2T oil available in the US, which isnt a low smoke type. Sideways suggested XR77 had been discontinued, even though its only been introduced relatively recently, so not quite sure I would want to take anything suggested by him that seriously?
  11. slideways

    slideways permanent ex-pat

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    We don't ride trials bikes we ride MX bikes which as you have admitted need more lubrication.

    You are the only person who thinks that XR77 is superior to any other top shelf oil out there. NO PROOF!

    XR77 has been discontinued probably because nobody was impressed with it enough to pay more for than the current oil they are using.

    There is no best oil they are all equally good. If the bike is jetted properly and the fuel is good the bike will perform up to its potential regardless of the oil brand.

    If you are using ethanol blended fuel you need more oil to protect your engine not less.

    Less is not more when it comes to lubricating a 2 stk.

    I use TTS RS because it consistently produces good results over a wide range of conditions. I have also used Blendzall,Spectro, BelRay and Yamalube R with equally good results.

    You could run just about any oil in your slow bike and it would do fine. Low compression, low RPM does not require much to keep it going.
  12. Ron Bernert

    Ron Bernert hiding in plain sight

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    I must say that this thread is incredibly entertaining, especially because it's re-run season on TV......
    Actually, engine life is secondary if you're serious enough. Peak horsepower or performance is needed to win, so engine life is secondary in the 'serious competition' you keep referring to. As long as an engine wins, it gets rebuilt/replaced/freshened however often it takes to keep winning.

    Maybe, just maybe the information YOU are referring to isn't good for the masses, TS. Just a thought.

    GAME ON!!!!:fyyff
  13. Ron Bernert

    Ron Bernert hiding in plain sight

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    I think this wins BEST POST!:lol3
  14. stainlesscycle

    stainlesscycle Long timer

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    i have run 80:1 and 100:1 in water cooled trials bikes. i have run 60:1 in an air cooled trials bike. doesn't mean anything. those motors plonk around 99% of the time.. you're almost never at wot on a trials bike. on a woods bike any time there is more than 30' with no trees ahead of me, or any sweeping turns, i have the throttle pegged. every corner exit i have the throttle pegged. the air cooled ones get hot. the water cooled ones not so much.
  15. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    Boy you really reveal more of your ignorance as time goes by. 2nd over does not mean 2nd piston.
  16. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    Nah more like this.

    [​IMG]
  17. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    I like it..........................a great example of troll humour!
  18. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    The fact is 2T oils are not all equal, and manufacturer advertising blurb contains an awful lot of BS!

    XR77 is currently very likely the best possible choice for any serious 2T competition usage, and is a product that has recently been introduced to supersede the now discontinued A747, castor/synthetic blend.

    Greenwash is something that most likely means you cant get XR77 in the US, as its not tree hugger friendly (low smoke), which is a shame as it doesnt contain solvents and as such is a much better choice for pre-mix machines being used seriously.

    For less serious or playbike use, the autolube tree hugger oils popular in the US are just fine, but personally I would never chose an autolube oil, as even on a playbike long engine life is important.
  19. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Thing is Ron not one of those who chose to use autolube rather than a product specifically designed for pre-mix use, has been able to clarify why the very thin autolube oil is superior to a full synthetic pre mix only type?

    I get the feeling that you cant get non solvent 2T race oils in the US, due to tree huggers, but I would suggest a pre-mix type with less solvent is probably the one to chose.
  20. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    I know exactly what second over means................that type of wear, seems to suggest very limited or very gentle usage over a 33 year period, on a big bore bike with cast iron cylinder liner.