Final Drive Death

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by bemiiten, Jul 11, 2005.

?

How did your failure happen?

  1. No notice at all ,left me stranded on the spot.

  2. Noticed a problem ,but was able to ride back to civilazation

  3. Just checked and felt fine ,but died a few hundred miles later

  4. Noticed problem,rode bike hundreds of miles without total failure

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  1. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2003
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    2,738
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    Deepest darkest burbs of Montreal
    Musta been since they are the only game in town. Recently heard that there is a good private BM mech in Calgary. Just another in a long list of bad BMW dealer experiences. Recently the only dealer in Montreal misbalanced 2 new Tourances. Front had nine blocks of lead and rear had ten. Nice little wobble. Front now has 1 and rear 2 little 7 gram weights. Other than tire mounting my GS has been BMW dealer free for over 50,000 kms.
  2. BHumW

    BHumW so many roads...

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    212
    Location:
    Waterloo, IA
    The bike has been feeling "loose" most of the season. I attributed this to shocks. The bike has been in for two scheduled services in the past 6 months. The last one (the end of June) the input shaft was lubed so most of the FD was disasembled, checked, lubed and reasembled. Clean bill of health. On the trip to AK lots of different fibrations were experienced through the foot pegs- an Overdrive surging due to poor gas, tire blemishes wearing through, etc. Each time the thought was "is this the one?" Then the one that utlimately proved fatal, started in Shelby, could be felt some what in all gears, but still felt like engine fibration though more distinct. Checked lugnuts, wheel play, looked for leaks, all seemed to be fine. Then about 8 miles out of Glasgow, the rear did a slight wiggle and everything ran smooth for a couple seconds, then returned, with an occasional "catch".
    Reduced speed and rode into town and stopped at first gas station. As soon as I stopped I smelled the gear lube and knew... BMW synthetic change at less than 12k miles by the way.
  3. roscoes2

    roscoes2 greybeard

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2005
    Oddometer:
    10
    Location:
    Awatere Valley Marlborough N.Z.
    hello

    new to the site and have been following the final drive thread with interest. Own an 02 r1150gsa.
    Have read on other bmw sites that there may be a problem in the 61917 c3 ball carrier/separator.
    Have a FAG 61917 c3 bmw part no.33121242210 that has 19 balls and would appear to be the bearing that has failed in most of the photos on the web.
    The SKF 61917 c3 would appear to have 17 balls and a slightly different carrier/separator.
    Has anyone suffered a bearing failure with the 17 ball SKF?
    There is also apparently a brass carrier/separator 61917 c3 available, brand unknown. Can anyone supply the manufacturer for this?

    Thankyou

    Ross
  4. cgdR

    cgdR Gearhead

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
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    Location:
    Newport News, VA, USA
    It seems like the 17-ball bearing is indeed the more recent one. Here is an interesting link.
  5. Mr Head

    Mr Head PowerPoint ADV

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
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    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Mine failed at about 24K. I noticed a problem and leakage while on the road and took the thing to the dealer. Chris cheecked and verified what I had checked. Bad. They found failed bearings a failed pinon seal, and failed output seal for the transmission. All repaired under warrantee. 24K later, and I'm waiting for the next failure. On my dime this time.
  6. Cycletroll

    Cycletroll Catastrophe Specialist

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,084
    Location:
    Northern New Mexico
    My FD outer seal started leaking at about 12k. Finished the trip I was on (about 400 more miles-leak was small), rode back to the dealer. They replaced seal (under warranty). No problem since. Supposedly the seal has been changed/upgraded since the '05 model.
  7. motojournals

    motojournals n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3
    2000 GS here. My final drive died at 300 miles short of 50k - right on schedule, I believe. Lots of noise. I stopped twice thinking something was rubbing on the wheel or the brakes were dragging. Was able to drive slowly (40mph or less) about 50 miles and made it to a dealer.
  8. BHumW

    BHumW so many roads...

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    212
    Location:
    Waterloo, IA
    FD failed again 14K miles after last repair. Goes into shop on Monday. Last repair guaranteed for 2 yrs. so should be taken care of. Doesn't help w/ the inconvenience of getting home from the back woods. I was hoping I could count on 40k and would replace under "preventative maintenance". Sounds like the 1200's are having troubles as well. Time for a KTM?
  9. Lone Rider

    Lone Rider Registered User

    Joined:
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    Sucks, yeah.
    Carry a big bearing and seal with you when going on long and/or important trips. You might only lose 1/2 a day to a full day that way....and be back roaring again.
  10. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    30,564
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    NoVA for now...
    So are there any 'warning signs?' that y'all have in common? I'm getting an intermittent rumbling in my RT and now I'm REAL concerned!

    :ear

    M
  11. raydar

    raydar Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Oddometer:
    269
    Location:
    Central Wyoming
    I have a '05 R12 GS and have recently had a rear wheel drive flange failure, not an actual bearing or seal failure although the final drive was replaced because the drive flange is splined to the Crown gear and when one gets loose it wears the other. From what I've seen the final drive bearings on the 12GS are different than the 1150, infact as close as I can tell there are many differences.

    The final drive bearing on an R12 GS is a 6013 2RS which is a single row ball bearing with seals on both sides. In looking at the mico fiche parts breakdown from AS Cycles http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_catalog/R1200GS(04-up)/catalog_frameset.html Diagram 33_1265 of the final drive shows the 6013 2RS bearing item #7 is mounted outside of the seal item #9. This information along with the fact that the bearing is sealed on both sides is telling me that this bearing is not lubricated by the oil in the final drive. In my experience it is packed with grease from the bearing manufacturer. The other bearing item #10 is a needle bearing in the R12 GS and I believe it is lubricated by the oil inside of the drive. This is in contrast to a tapered roller bearing that I saw in the earlier posts on this thread and the ball bearing which both appear to be oil lubed on the 1150(?).

    The drive flange on the R 12 GS is heated and shrunk onto the crown gear shaft and the shop manual says it requires a puller to remove it before the final drive can be torn completely down. This is going to cause some problems in repairing the R 12GS FD on the road IMHO. I have read some threads where the bearing on the input shaft to the FD failed and not the ouput bearing.

    Yes BMW has made some changes to the FD from the 1150 to the 1200, wheter or not they were all for the better is yet to be determined. There is evidence on this site and others (BMW MOA) that says maybe not everything has been fixed. I know that I am going to pay very close attention to my final drive in the future including checking temperature, unloaded turning, and shake of the rear wheel. I will change the oil in my new FD at 600 miles and then probably every 6K after that. The closest dealer to me is 175 miles and I don't expect if a failure occurs I would be a whole lot closer to one. I do believe that much of the discussion on this site has given me a much better understanding of what is happening to these bikes and how I can be better prepared to discover and prevent further damage from happening. I know I am planning to keep my R12 GS beyond the expiration of the 3 year / 36K mille warranty. If I do I will need to be able to maintain and repair the FD! Lets keep up the informative discussion.
  12. BHumW

    BHumW so many roads...

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    212
    Location:
    Waterloo, IA
    An odd vibration in the footpegs and sometimes in the handlebars. It almost feels like it surges, as if it's a result of the fuel injection surging. Also tends to feel a bit like it's connected to the suspension, as the vibration seemed to match road irregularities. I remember thinking "I need to have this checked at the next service..." That would be the time to check for side to side and top to bottom movement in the rear wheel. I didn't cause there was no way it was the bearing again... Denial.
  13. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
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    Hamilton NJ.
    That's exactly what I been doing. I waited 6 weeks for the parts as they were on backorder.
  14. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    30,564
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    NoVA for now...
    ...and off to SC BMW I go!

    Right after I get some $$...

    M
  15. Gusgus

    Gusgus Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
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    5,308
    Location:
    Su Valley, Alaska
    I am a mechanic, and have a full time need to micro manage every perceived threat.
    I have noticed for some time the seep of the final drive pinion seal inside the final drive. I changed the oil in the final drive every 1500 to 2000 miles from new. When I took the final drive apart it was as if it was new, even at 40,000 miles. I replaced the ring gear with the 17 ball variety while I was in there. But the pinion seal is not an average seal replacement. It requires quite a few specialized tools. I bought them, I planned it all out and promptly terrorized myself in the disassembly process. The resulting damage was somewhat corrected although it is not over yet. Since the initial rebuild, I have found the oil leak is actually from the transmission output shaft seal. I have taken the swing arm off 4 times as of now and I plan even, as I write this of #5, which will be closely followed by the transmission removal and rebuild. The oil leak has advanced to a stiffeling amount. Marking it's territory as if it is my old Harley.

    So none of the poll answers make since to an anal mechanic type.:super
  16. slide

    slide A nation in despair

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    The term is 'retentive' not 'anal' unless you prefer your sex unconventionally.

    I have to wonder after reading your post why you bother. Why not just dump the bike and get a chain drive one?
  17. Lone Rider

    Lone Rider Registered User

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
    25,130
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    out and about
    Dear Dr Slide,

    The man listed what he had been doing to his final drive, experience with an input seal, reported a trans real leak...and that he plans to address this.

    How in-the-Hell is your response to his post even close to being relevant? Maybe you're trying to help him with his terminology...perhaps?

    Did you and DrABS have a little tiff today?
  18. Waco

    Waco Renegade Sickle Hound

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
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    15,072
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    Waco, Texas
    Still no problems at 48,000 miles.
  19. Lone Rider

    Lone Rider Registered User

    Joined:
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    out and about
    That's been mine, too.

    I tried denial on my 2nd one...same result as your attempt. :D
  20. Lone Rider

    Lone Rider Registered User

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    :thumb

    My original went fine until about 80k.