First ride in Ont, very poor experience with OPP

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Maggot12, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. MFS

    MFS Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    230
    Location:
    Prairies...
    Granted, whether we are aware of each provincials rules or not, breaking the law is breaking the law I guess, our fault for not checkin before travelling between provinces, much like going into a different county I suppose.

    However...

    The Primary reason for having the OPP, RCMP, etc, is public saftey. Officers ARE NOT trained on the wiring harness of each manufacturer, and how could they be? If he messes up your rig, and then expects you to drive the speed limit moments after, he has put you at risk in my opinion, and at the risk of others on the road.

    If he wanted it removed, he should have had it towed, and done properly, of course this would have meant more work for him.
    Or, get you to remove it for him, which would have been the best/nicest approach. This "Mulit-tools Multi-tool" is not intended for, or rated for automotive repair. Is there such a rating? I don't know, but it sounds good.

    He has tampered with your bike, plain and simple. He does not, and cannot name the purpose of each wire he is cutting the ties close too, and harming the insulation on any one could quite possibly mean you harm down the road, and not be able to trace the event back to this officer.

    When looking at risk, always look at the "worst case scenario", anything less is turning a blind eye.
    He has put you at risk by not being a certified technician, or having any training to remove this item. They do not.

    If you go to court, play the safety card. Yes, you broke the law without intent. However, he has knowingly put you at risk, and further logic by individual officers needs to be prevented.

    So say MFS!! :lol3

    Ride safe, and fight it to the point it costs you money, cause it really is a no-win situation but F-em all anyway!

    Have fun...
    #21
  2. GP640

    GP640 Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,454
    Location:
    NW AB
    OK, the constable was a dick. there, I said it.

    Now, I gotta know, how did you get to Ontario? Did you drive? Have you ever driven into
    Ontario?

    If yes then you must have seen the signs that say in very clear terms that radar detectors are illegal.

    Having said that, I laughed at the cop who got all excited when he saw my empty GPS mount in my truck.
    "What rides there?" He asked
    "my GPS"
    "you sure you don't keep your radar detector there?"
    "Nope, don't own one and never have. Besides, I grew up in this province constable and I am well aware of your laws."
    "Any alcohol in the truck?"
    "No."
    "Any in the back?"
    "No, and that would be perfectly legal if there was as it would be out of reach. Anything else?"
    "have a safe trip."

    I don't know what the road block was about but the shakedown was silly.
    #22
  3. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    46,761
    Location:
    Gates of Moscow
    It was about power, that's all. I have a family of cops, so yeah, I'm kinda familiar with it. Judge will laugh at you, I bet. This really is the 'I have the power and you don't' province. Just see the current gubmint policies.

    And you really need to brush up on the stunting law, folks aren't kidding about that.

    Another thing: I found it to not be a good idea to tell them I was military. If they figured it out, fine, but never volunteer (even a 500 trade ought to know that) the info. Always found that I got treated worse as soon as they found out.

    This is, so far, the worst province I've been in when it comes to the government and its agents. As you have unfortunately learned quite quickly.
    #23
  4. Commuter Boy

    Commuter Boy Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,962
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    Maybe. But judges do run into the same cops over and over, and get to know who's an asshole and who's not. And that means things can go very poorly for them if they get enough people tying up the Court's time to complain about asshat treatment.

    That would be the only reason i'd fight it, and maybe try and get the penalty reduced some.

    Oh, and +1 on the checking the stunting law and the OPP interpretations of it out. You'll be a little surprised......
    #24
  5. KLRARP

    KLRARP Lookin for a way out

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Oddometer:
    85
    Location:
    North of K-W
    The cop was flexing his muscle/authority...because he can. I totally get that part. You can't do anything about it.
    The only thing I don't get is why you moved here from BC? It's beautiful there and the riding is great isn't it?
    Welcome to Ontario. Big brother is watching.
    #25
  6. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    46,761
    Location:
    Gates of Moscow
    He's military. Posted to the school in Borden.
    #26
  7. Patrol

    Patrol VALE 46!

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,366
    Location:
    Little Mogadishu, Canada
    Save your $, skip the 'lawyer up' suggestion. There's no legal defence for radar detectors, and no provision to get it back. Even if the officer didn't show up for court (they always do now) the court can't return it to you.

    I'm looking at a copy of the Highway Traffic Act. There is no mention of standing on the pegs for stunting. I believe that is an urban legend. Wheelies qualify though.
    #27
  8. Slow Toast

    Slow Toast pfft

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Oddometer:
    67
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    It's in the regulations (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_070455_e.htm)

    ONTARIO REGULATION 455/07
    Section 3
    6 Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.
    #28
  9. Maggot12

    Maggot12 U'mmmm yeaah!!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,737
    Location:
    Barrie Ont
    Thanks for all the notes and tips...

    I have 3 options..

    1) pay and say nothing. I can put my visa # on the ticket and mail it in.

    2) Plead guilty but face a justice team. No charge..

    3) Plead not guilty and face judge.

    Its easy to choose # 1 and be done with it. #3 is not really on option as I'm guilty. Bottom line, I had an illegal device on my bike.

    But it's bothered me enough over the last 4 days that I need to say something, as miniscule as a justice team may think it is. As least when its over i'll have peace of mind and what ever happens after that, so be it.
    #29
  10. StepOnIt

    StepOnIt Assitoner

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,039
    Location:
    Huntsville ON.
    I am not saying to fight to get your radar protector back just the ticket.
    Plea your case and see what happens, worse case scenario is you have to pay the full price. It is not like he let you off easy and you can show the damage he did to your bike.
    I agree it is easy just to pay the fine and they know that. Cant say they like to go to court, but a judge might tell him to be careful next time.
    #30
  11. Maggot12

    Maggot12 U'mmmm yeaah!!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,737
    Location:
    Barrie Ont
    And to answer a few question..

    I moved from BC because of a military posting and yes I drove here, taking the Sarnia area border crossing, (and I can't recal seeing, no detector warning signs, not to say they weren't there though). Spent 4 yrs in BC and was happy to leave. Family is from NFLD and BC is a long way from home. I can see if you were from there you wouldn't want to leave. Lower mainland is where I'd live though, Chiliwack area probably.

    We lived in Victoria. Van Island is nice, can ride yr around, but the riding itself is not that great as its very limited. It only has a couple roads going north/south and a few roads going east/west. You can cover every paved road in a weekend and it gets repetitive after that. Off rd would be better but I didn't do any of that. I put 47k miles on a US dl650 in the 3.5 yrs there.

    We had a great time travelling and camping, covering most areas of BC (Whistler, Banff and all over Van Island), Wa and Or. Drove the coast down to San Diego, San Fran, went to Grand Canyon, Vegas, Hawaii. Alaska and Yukon were on my list before I left but never made it.

    Never asked to come to Ont, but its been good till now, wife and kids are happy to be here. Lots to do and see, and will attempt to do the same here as we did in BC and take in everything possible in the 3-4 yrs I'll be here. I figure NS or NFLD after this.

    If standing in front of a bunch of officers to speak my case somehow "red flags" them to somehow pick on me (51 in a 50 as was mentioned or standing on pegs), I'll sell the bike and buy a Corolla, as it wouldn't be worth the aggravation of owning a motorcycle here.
    #31
  12. Maggot12

    Maggot12 U'mmmm yeaah!!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,737
    Location:
    Barrie Ont
    According to the back of the ticket for option # 2, they have the "plead guilty and face justice team" only every third friday of every month. So who knows if this officer will be there. Not that it matters to me.

    If pleading not guilty, this is when you make an appointment for court time and likely face the defending officer.

    Worst case for me is where I stand now. I pay the 170 while I'm there and get nothing back. Best case scenario... no idea :ear But I'll feel good about it.
    #32
  13. walkergreenlabel

    walkergreenlabel Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    191
    Location:
    Oakville, ON
    in some sections there is a distinction between motor vehicle and motorcycle. does motor vehicle include motorcycle in this case or just cages?

    when its hot I need to stand up and let the stones cool off in the breeze!
    #33
  14. toddiscdn

    toddiscdn Take off, EH!

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,058
    Location:
    Blue Point, Ontario
    The signs are there, about 5 miles from the bridge just past the airport. I dirve by there regularly and the only reason I notice them is because Ive been popped before:lol3 . Is a litlle 1ft square sign on either side of the 402 that says "SPEED MEASURING WARNING DEVICES PROHIBITED":huh clear as mud eh!

    Now your just being silly, welcome to Ontario, its no different than BC other than the radar dector thing, lotsa people feel the same about the RCMP, the wacko BC goverment and ICBC. The BC stunting law is actually worse, with 40 over being the limit to lose your ride rather than 50 . Really , its not that bad here:D
    #34
  15. Patrol

    Patrol VALE 46!

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,366
    Location:
    Little Mogadishu, Canada
    I don't see the logic in paying a lawyer $1000 to fight a $100 ticket.

    The O.Reg you are quoting pertains to cars, not bikes. The highway traffic act defines the seat on a motorcycle as a "saddle". This reg has nothing to do with bikes.
    #35
  16. StepOnIt

    StepOnIt Assitoner

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,039
    Location:
    Huntsville ON.
    not sure why it would cost $1000 to get a lawyer?? I got a ticket for 31km over so major infraction 6pts and $300 (if i remember right) Got a lawyer for $350 to fight it and she got it knocked down to a $100 fine, no points and nothing on my driving record. So in the end it cost me $450 but saves me money in the end.:clap
    #36
  17. pelvis_98

    pelvis_98 Havin A Time

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,995
    Location:
    Oxford Station, Ontario
    I dont read "sitting in a seat" as meaning standing on pegs either.

    But when i read the HTA i also see this.

    "“motorcycle” means a self-propelled vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the driver and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and includes a motor scooter, but does not include a motor assisted bicycle; (“motocyclette”)"

    So it can be "seat or saddle"

    "172. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager. 2007, c. 13, s. 21."

    What if the cop thinks standing on the pegs is a stunt? Or he feels that standing on the pegs has the possibility of causing harm to the rider or someone else at the time?

    That may not be the intent of the law and you and me may agree that it doesn't really say "standing" But if the cop on the side of the road disagrees or has read someplace else in HTA and feels it applies, what option do we have? We all know how well things go when you try and argue your case on the side of the road with a cop.
    #37
  18. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    46,761
    Location:
    Gates of Moscow
    Yep. You get the tow, the suspension, regardless. Court only helps on the fine.
    #38
  19. Patrol

    Patrol VALE 46!

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,366
    Location:
    Little Mogadishu, Canada
    Let me try this again. If you're being charged for stunting, you will receive a summons from the officer. The summons is either written by hand or a few big cities now have printers in the cruisers. There are "approved wordings" that the officer must choose from, he can't just make up a charge. For stunting there are five. Perform Stunt on Highway - 165 km/h in a Posted 50 km/h Zone", or Perform Stunt on Highway - Engage in Race, for example. There are only 5 wordings for stunting. none of them involves pegs or standing or anything close.

    If you feel the need to stand on the pegs on a highway, fill your boots.
    #39
  20. pelvis_98

    pelvis_98 Havin A Time

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,995
    Location:
    Oxford Station, Ontario

    Ok, so you charge someone and use the words "Preform a Stunt on a Highway".

    Whats a stunt, in the eyes of every cop out there?
    #40