Flat tracker and street tracker photos

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by jehu, Oct 5, 2007.

  1. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    For the love of all that is holy, please, somebody tell me that this ISN'T an XR750 with a Sportster engine and street title.

    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/mcy/3789047564.html

    I absofreakinlutely do not need another bike, much less another project. Every detail I compare to the XR750 frame matches: the steering neck, the oil tank, the swingarm, the upper shock mounts, etc, etc.
  2. Donzzilla

    Donzzilla Been here awhile

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    That's what it is. Some one took a good race bike and put some "Panster" abortion motor in it.
  3. GSMark

    GSMark Just Love Bikes

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    Yup, what Don said. ^
    I think that it would sell for more $$$ without the motor. Here it is:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  4. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    Well, it's easy to dismiss the engine as some abortion. I doubt anybody would yank a perfectly good XR motor and then go to all that trouble to build something else. Probably had the engine pulled for a spare for some other bike, or maybe it grenaded and wasn't rebuildable?

    In any case, somebody managed to fit two front heads, work out all the plumbing (intake and exhaust) and--worst of all--the cams. I don't think you can just swap some cams around or retime the ones in there.

    I don't know the flow characteristics of the Panheads but, my guess is they may flow better than the stock Sportster heads. If not, finding two front Sportster heads wouldn't be tough.

    Plus, it has a street title (not so easy to do in Kalifornia anymore).

    I can't find anything else glaringly wrong with it...except cosmetics. That's a minor nit in the big scheme of things.
  5. skorpioskorpio

    skorpioskorpio Been here awhile

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    Panheads have the ports for the exhaust and intake on the same side of the head. I forget who makes them but those heads are as rare as an XR frame and not simply 2 front heads. They are a mirror of the XR arrangement.
  6. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    You aren't making this ANY easier on me. Bad, bad man! :lol3

    I tried to call and got rolled straight to voicemail. Maybe it's already sold.
  7. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    OK, went and looked at it a few hours ago. First: not an XR750 frame. It is indeed a Lawwill frame. The welds are gorgeous. What a chassis. The bike needs--or at least deserves--a complete cosmetic restoration.

    There is no electric starter so it's kick-only. It's a 1974 engine and the bike is registered as a 1974 Harley Davidson. The number on the head tube matches the registration and it's non-op since 2004. The bottom muffler has a few dents. It could be sent out to one of those expansion chamber repair guys to fix that up. There is something inside the back of that muffler that looked like a glass-pack baffle but, I swear I could drop a tennis ball inside and it wouldn't stop until it got to the exhaust valve. Gawd it has to be loud.

    The engine is a huge unknown. He swears it ran at one time but, the rest of the chassis is so unsorted that I have to wonder if the bike has ever been ridden. The gas tank is new. I looked inside and the fiberglass is flawless. Not a trace of modern fuel destroying the gel coat.

    There is at least one broken fin on the rear cylinder head but, it's inboard of the carb so--not so noticeable. The inlet manifolds have giant gland nuts like the knucklehead intakes had. The exhaust ports are an unknown. It looks like they're set up as a single-bolt flange. That makes me nervous...not so sure how you'd get a good seal to the headers.

    The rear brake master cylinder, pedal and bracketry at the bottom, back of the frame is a kludge. No clue what Lawwill intended that to look like but, it's not right. The wiring does not exist. Various parts are in a cardboard box (headlight, various brackets, voltage regulator, coil, etc).

    All in all, a very restorable bike and would be stunning if it were rebuilt/restored correctly. The problem is: it needs the right owner with either deep pockets, fabrication and restoration skills, or (preferably) both.

    Anybody going to step up? I'm not even sure I could kick start the thing. Gettin' old sucks and I don't have the money or space. :lol3
  8. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

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    So it's got a right side shifter?
  9. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    Yes, right side shifter. Anybody who could sort out that mess of a rear brake linkage could fabricate a swap-over linkage for the shifter. I understand that's basically what Harley did on the first few years of left-shift Sportsters.
  10. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

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    But if it's a flat tracker wouldn't you want to leave the right side shifter?
  11. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    If it were going to be a racer--yes--the right hand shift would make sense. If I were being a purist, it would make sense too. The problem is: it's not an XR750 engine and never will be...sooo...how accurate does it need to be vs. being rideable? It's got brakes too, so if it were mine, I'd call it a TT bike and that would explain why the shifter change. :D

    Can anybody share why that 1000 Sportster engine is so freakin' heavy? I know it's got iron cylinders but the engine cases aren't iron, are they? I know that seems like a stupid question but, I've got four Buells and just picking this bike up off the sidestand, it's VERY hefty; not a small difference.
  12. villageidiot

    villageidiot Long timer

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    iron jugs, probably a thicker gauge steel frame, probaby has thick steel rods and heavier flywheels than your buell too.
  13. flemsmith

    flemsmith lurk

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    ...conversion on my 74 ironhead. Not that hard to do, but it never felt as tight as the right side. All the extra linkage made it feel a bit sloppier.

    just my 2 cents. roy
  14. IHWillys

    IHWillys Been here awhile

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    It looks rough but would make a neat streetbike. It may leave many scratching their head in wonderment and "why?" would be a common thought but I've always had a soft spot for that sort of thing as long as it works. Rear brake lever/master does look awful in the pics. If I were a bit richer right now...

    Ken
  15. Badge320

    Badge320 Wild Hog No. 3

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    What's a Lawwill frame worth..?

    You could buy an XR 750 engine and plug it into the frame....
  16. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    The frame is worth whatever somebody will pay for it. Not to sound trite but, a guy that wants the bike will pay what he's asking. Here's what my research found. See if you agree or not.

    I found another bike on a Sportster or flat track forum, with a similar situation (XR engine gone). They estimated the chassis to be worth about $2K and an XR engine in good running condition to be about $10K (:eek1!!).

    Also: in the research, I found posts saying that Lawwill sold those frames for quite awhile. Some sources said that he eventually supplied the frames to Harley Davidson for the production bikes (not that many per year were made--someone had to make them). True? I dunno. I read it on the interwebs.

    I've studied dozens of huge photos online and found the exact same frame on most of the XRs (some very distinct welding details around the steering head are the easy giveaway). So either that was true or the Lawwill frame became a defacto replacement for the factory frame (everybody had 'em).

    Lawwill also sold a later chassis, easily identified by its square-section swingarm. I found that in a vintage Mert Lawwill catalog listed on ebay.

    Finding an XR engine without a chassis should prove just next to impossible. Even if you did, buying a whole bike would be cheaper than trying to put this one back together...if it ever had an XR engine to begin with.

    So it comes down to: what is the value of the frame and bodywork, some old Sportster hubs laced to Borrani rims and some period-correct but, ineffective brakes? With the questionable Ironhead lump, I'd put the value of the package at around $2500. That should have moved it in days. The proper answer is somewhere in the $1250 gap between my guesstimate and his "Firm" price.

    My version of what to do with it? Put that chassis on a lift, pull the Ironhead and sell it for parts. Shoehorn a 1994-2002 Sportster 1200 engine in there--or better--a Buell Thunderstorm. Buy the Supertrapp 2-into-2 high-pipe tracker exhaust, spend a few grand on polishing the wheels, plating the frame and painting the bodywork.

    The result would be faster, more reliable and would look more like an XR750 than the current engine. It would instantly gain electric starting, left-hand shift and a rear master cylinder mounted by the factory, to the right engine case. It fixes so many things, so smartly and so easily that it seems like a no-brainer.

    I have everything to do it except money and time. :lol3

    Come on, I figured somebody on this thread would have seen that and grabbed it up.
  17. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

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    Christ, this is your 7th post on this bike. Just go buy it already. I'm sure you've got a little more room on one of your credit cards. :1drink

    If you don't go save that bike someone else is going to install a 12-over springer on it and weld some struts to the rear to make it a hardtail. That bike needs you, Donkey; don't let it down. :D
  18. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    :lol3
    You don't understand the depth of the problem. I bought this bike FIVE years ago and haven't done a thing to it: 1971 Yamaha in a Trackmaster frame, Ceriani forks, Airheart brakes, etc. Never heard it run. I may have sat on it three times. I've been collecting period parts to fix it up right but, zero forward progress other than that. And this ain't the only project bike around here. :D

    [​IMG]

    More pics here:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338106

    I honestly figured somebody on here would be equally excited about the possibilities and grab the Harley.

    Anybody more interested in the Yamaha? :deal
  19. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

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    Nope... and I can still hear it calling your name. :lol3

    Sure, I'll take it. If the engine isn't seized, I bet I can have it running in a week.
  20. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    There is allegedly nothing wrong with the engine. It had firm compression when I kicked it through and the transmission snicked right through each gear. That was good enough for me.

    The problem was that alcohol in our modern gas had softened the resin in the tank and had started sucking it through the carbs where it would reharden in the needle jet and float needle.

    The previous owner begged me to not start it until I got a new gas tank. Sadly, the tank in the photos is just destroyed inside (layers of fiberglass pulling up, or bulging up everywhere). He already cleaned out the carbs with great difficulty but, didn't want to see that resin make it downstream to the valves and rings. I agreed.

    There are two NOS Sportster touring tanks that go with the bike: the 1960s Turtle tank and the 1970s teardrop--both about 3.5 gallons and flat trackish looking. I wanted something metal, with a narrow tunnel (to fit the frame properly) and enough gas to be able to ride a loop of Angeles Crest Highway. Also: a NOS chrome 2-into-1 exhaust that collects under the engine, then exits behind the right peg. Flawless and never mounted. A couple of Airheart calipers for converting to twin Airheart brakes up front (terrible brakes but, authentic for the bike). I have just about everything needed to finish the Yamaha...except time (See? I don't even need money to finish this one and it still sits.).

    If you're at all serious, PM me. I doubt you are...just poking me to buy the other one. :lol3