Fluid drive

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by anonny, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. anonny

    anonny What could go wrong?

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    I need some schooling.... heres the possible project. Snowmobile engine in a dirtbike frame to drive my Timbersled, it would be too hard to find a way to run the sled clutches so how about a hydraulic drive?

    [​IMG]

    I'd like to be putting out 80 -100 hp from the sled motor so what would it take? How big are the efficiency losses?
    #1
  2. BENRON

    BENRON Crosscut Certified

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    A hydraulic pump and motor ready for 100 hp would be HUGE, HEAVY, and HOT.
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  3. anonny

    anonny What could go wrong?

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    Hots probably not a problem, this thing throws up a constant supply of frozen coolant, heavy and huge are a problem. What weights are we talking? Dimensions?

    Is there some drive motors and pumps I can look at online to get an idea? I have no idea of how I would size one.
    #3
  4. Hastelloy-X

    Hastelloy-X Been here awhile

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    Why bother; it has been done already.

    A D Boivin Snow Hawk is what you should get. However it seems they sold out the Snow Hawk to a new investor...

    http://www.motosportsthibeault.com/
    #4
  5. anonny

    anonny What could go wrong?

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    Nope, that's closer to a sled than a bike. Timbersleds are closer to a bike than a sled. :D
    #5
  6. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Whats wrong with a sled clutch? I would think you could come up with a jackshaft setup to get the power back there

    The hydraulics is going to be a mess for something that powerful
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  7. P B G

    P B G Long timer

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    Only benefits to the hydro would be very low speed, and being able to reverse the pump.

    BUT. Any hydraulic system is going to require a pump, lines/valves/ and a motor + reservoir.

    So if you look at your efficiency you have Engine - pump - line - valve - line - motor - return line. This is great if you want to do a relatively fixed speed, with varying force (like a skid steer).

    Horrible for a sled, where you have high start up load, then want to have pretty high RPM, and not waste all that horsepower tranfering power. Ideally you'd just have a chain - but that's no gears. Most of these conversions I think use a recluse clutch and you just power shift.
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  8. little foot

    little foot Scratch and Sniff

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    I hope you figure it out because that looks like soooooo much fun.
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  9. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    How about a cbr 600 motor? I did the opposite you did, attached a ktm swingarm to acbr frame. The good thing is the difference from one sprocket to the other over the length of the chain was about 1/2".

    Plenty of power, dirt cheap, little heavy though

    How about a banshee motor? Thats chain drive I'm sure
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  10. anonny

    anonny What could go wrong?

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    It's not an issue to get the power back from the clutches, it's more an issue of those big clutches are going to be in the way big time, will need to be kept dry and cool enough.


    Thanks, that all makes sense.

    Others have gone with street bike motors and said the weight penalty from the larger motor was not worth the horsepower gain. A banshee motor may just be the ticket. Another nice touch would be a turbocharger on our present 450 motocrossers with just a touch of boost.
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  11. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    What about a drive train from a side by side like a Rhino?
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  12. anonny

    anonny What could go wrong?

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    What does the Rino have? Is it an independent tranny?
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  13. dave186

    dave186 Been here awhile

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    Since you already have an RFS engine, why not have it turned into a 613? wouldnt add weight and youd be 60+ HP.

    I just put a hydraulic pump on today that could handle the HP your talking and it was about 50lbs just on its own. I think for the idea to work at all you would need something more along the lines of a torque converter.
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  14. vfxdog

    vfxdog Been here awhile

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    About 4 years ago Ohlins put together a prototype 2wd Yamaha R1 using a hydraulic pump to drive the front wheel. Some internet research or maybe even a call to Ohlins might turn up some useful information.
    The pump and motor were identical units, made for Ohlins by Bosch, and could handle 33 bhp approx. Weight of the system was said to be only 13 to 14 lbs.
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  15. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Is the issue just not enough power to drive the track? I would think you could get rather insane power from a banshee motor relatively:deal cheap vs turboing your ktm or stroking it
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  16. snowhawk jockey

    snowhawk jockey Slack Jaw Gaper

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    Hydra drive isn't the answer...
    Running a primary and secondary off a 600 twin sled motor isn't the space issue you will have: it is the pipe!
    Been playing with Hawks and conversions since they were born.
    Gimme a PM and we can cover what has been done and how you can benefit from the "research"!
    #16
  17. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

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    I've always found the "snowbike" concept interesting, from back in the days of the old Chrysler Marine "Sno Runner".
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Mountain Horse website was very interesting, http://www.timbersled.com/sbreviews.htm especially the customer comments, a few of which said that you have to have over 500cc power or you'll be unhappy. Some happy folks have KTM530's and 690's.

    I'm with dave186 - make it a 613 and you'll have something that will still be a dirt bike, too. Frankensteining it out with some shade tree powertrain would probably make a great money pit but not much else.
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  18. dave186

    dave186 Been here awhile

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    If the 613 isnt enough power, the guys at 2moto used to have a Husaberg 650 with a turbo on it :evil

    I hadnt thought of the banshee motor, it should fit relatively well and has a transmission. but as already mentioned where you gonna put twin pipes?
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  19. scapegoat

    scapegoat Pushin forward back

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    Recall Suzuki's Falcorustyco?
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  20. P B G

    P B G Long timer

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    I am still not grasping what is so hard with sled clutches?

    All sleds I'm aware of have an engine mounted primary, with a secondary on a jack shaft. The jackshaft goes across to the chain case. And then a chain runs to the paddle wheel for the track drive.

    If you take the engine, and jackshaft, ditch the chain case, you should be able to mount the engine where you want it, locate the jackshaft where the separation is correct, then attach the appropriate length of chain to drive the thing.

    Won't be pretty though, and you'll need to keep the belts dry.
    #20