Found extra parts/pieces? (With Pics!)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by PhiSig1071, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    Isn't it great how something as simple as an oil change can create so many problems? So I was doing an oil change on my fiancee's GS500F, and I noticed the rear sprocket was trashed. No worries, just get a new sprocket and chain. Well, I got all that in and started working. Got the old chain and sprocket off, got the new one broke down to the right length, and got the new sprocket on.

    I went to feed the chain onto the countershaft sprocket and noticed it was a little loose. No problem, just pop the cover off and snug it up. Well, I opened up the cover and found this:

    [​IMG]

    They were stuck in the accumulated road grime/chain lube crap under the sprocket, here:

    [​IMG]

    At first I thought it might be a guide, like this one on the cover:

    [​IMG]

    But there are way too many of them. Plus looking at the second picture, there's no need for them on the other bolts, plus according to ron ayers microfiche there is only one.

    Any ideas? Chain exploded on the PO (My fiancee bought it with 2500 miles, it's got 30k now) and these are what's left? Any help is appreciated.
    #1
  2. FlySniper

    FlySniper Bleh...

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    It looks like it could be bits of a chain, but that's weird for one to come apart like that.... If there's no other signs of damage it about has to be from the trashed chain.



    You didn't get a new countershaft sprocket?
    #2
  3. P B G

    P B G Long timer

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    They do look like the chain rollers - inspect the old chain for missing ones should solve that question.
    #3
  4. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    After inspecting the old chain they are indeed the inner rollers.

    [​IMG]

    No, I didn't do the countershaft sprocket. It's steel, the drive sprocket is aluminum, the countershaft sprocket is not showing significant wear.
    #4
  5. tedder

    tedder irregular

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    Yep. That's not entirely unusual for a very very worn chain. It was probably slipping/skipping too.

    The useful life of the replacement chain will be limited. I mean:
    old sprockets + new chain < new sprockets + new chain
    #5
  6. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    I agree, however, I have never really had an issue with it. I always change the rear, because they're aluminum, but I've only changed the front once, and that was just to go down one tooth on my '03 GSXR600. I have 30k miles on my GSXR, (including about 20 trackdays over the past five years) and I think I'm on my third chain. I don't know, maybe that is unusually short lifespan and I just don't know it. My fiancee's GS has about 30k on it as well and it's on it's fourth chain as of today (however, it's on it's second rear sprocket, and I do attribute the short life span on the third chain to the rear sprocket being pretty chewed up when she had the chain installed, I was out of town for a few months when she had it done). Hell, if it chews up this chain too quickly then it'll just give me an excuse to learn more about working on the bike.

    Now, another question, I have always had this work done by a shop, but this time I decided to do it myself. I have a chain breaker/rivet tool, and I am using the rivet style master link. I followed the instructions for riveting the master link, but it doesn't seem like the rivet "flanged" out far enough. I did it by hand, and snugged it down slightly with a small wrench. What do you guys think?

    [​IMG]
    #6
  7. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    Just FYI I had not aligned the rear wheel yet, nor adjusted chain tension, thus the gap on the chain adjuster on the back of the axle.
    #7
  8. tedder

    tedder irregular

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    Do what works, but know steel still degrades, and a bad sprocket destroys a good chain. Just like everything else (helmets, oil, valve checks) ultimately it's up to you. Here's an example of a failed countersprocket:
    [​IMG]

    It looks okay. Gauge a proper riveting pressure based on the "width" of the links, not the spread of the rivet. In other words, make sure this link has the same amount of o-ring spacing as the other links- no more, no less.
    #8
  9. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    Good to know! I hadn't thought about it that way, I just assumed the pins would flange out enough to be visible. I'll probably stash a clip-style master link in the tankbag anyway, just in case.

    As for the front sprocket, I'll keep an eye on it, and the chain. It currently looks pretty good, it's in the second picture above. Thankfully the bike is no longer her primary mode of transport, and there will be more downtown for me to tinker with it and fix a few other little issues. Thanks for the heads up!
    #9
  10. D.T.

    D.T. Difficult but useful

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    Never saw that before. :huh

    Cheap ass chain? I tried a non-oring $35 chain in my big SV once and it barely made 1200 miles before it was all kinked up.

    Damn, the new X ring chains are $135-$200 bucks nowadays.
    #10
  11. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    EK X-Ring. Not cheap, not the best. It was her primary mode of transport for a 210 mile round-trip commute. In the desert. On the highway. We finally had to get her a car because small stuff kept coming up with the bike. I'm guessing that chain probably has around 5000 miles on it. So, ya know, barely a month's worth of commuting. :lol3
    #11
  12. Dave in Wi

    Dave in Wi Long timer

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    If I'm reading this correctly, 30,000 miles and it's on its fourth chain.... 7,500 miles per chain... I'd replace the front sprocket too. Chain comes in different tensile strengths, typically the bigger the engine the greater strength chain needed. If it's a decent chain properly installed and lubed once in a while it should last a lot longer than that. I'm at 20,000 miles on the original chain on my bike, and it's still got 5+K in it at least.
    #12
  13. tedder

    tedder irregular

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    Overtightened chains will do that.

    As will chains that are simply worn out.

    Once that starts happening, sprockets get tooth damage quickly.
    #13
  14. D.T.

    D.T. Difficult but useful

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    +1 on the overtightening. The rear suspension wouldn't even budge if it were extrememly tight.

    If that's a EK x-ring chain I'd email them and say WTF??

    Tip: I'd remove the CS sprocket and grease the splines. Reduces wear and makes it easier to come off.
    #14
  15. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Did you remove the front sprocket to clean the corrosion I see creeping on the splines behind the snap ring?
    #15
  16. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    I just put the fourth chain on today, so it's worn three chains out by 30k miles, so 10k miles per chain. But still maybe shorter life then average?

    It is an EK chain, and apparently I need to go back in and pull the cs sprocket to lube the spline and clean corrosion (wire brush? how would I seal it afterward to keep the newly exposed metal from corroding worse?) so I may end up changing the CS sprocket while I'm doing all that.
    #16
  17. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    Compare that CS to a new one and it is worn. I get the theory about aluminum vs steel and wear but your rear sprocket is also many times bigger. Getting 20k out of a matched set of new parts isn't out of line for pure street riding, especially on a lower HP bike with an easy rider on the bars. Spend the extra $14, it is cheaper in the long run.
    #17
  18. Flashmo

    Flashmo Whatever...

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    That CS sprocket in your OP is worn pretty well. A full set would run 15-20K miles, but your replacement will probably be lucky to get 7K.

    The amount of miles the bike ran in the last month has no impact on how well the chain wears. The drive system as a whole, determines the wear on the chain. If the last chain only got 5-10K miles then there is something wrong or something that was not replaced with the group the last time chain and sprockets were changed.

    For about $200 it does not make sense to not change the entire drive at once considering how short lived chains are when you dont replace BOTH sprockets at the same time.
    #18
  19. Benesesso

    Benesesso Long timer

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    That bike uses the snap ring method to secure the C/S sprocket, which is inferior to using a big nut to hold it. Snap rings allow movement, which can wear the C/S splines. Use a small wire brush to clean them, and get some moly dry spray. Spray several coats on both shaft and sprocket.

    BTW, unlike chains where the pitch gets longer as the internals wear, sprockets maintain their pitch. Unless it's worn a bunch, used sprockets do NOT wear chains out faster, whereas a worn chain will increase sprocket wear. Most chains wear internally, not on the OD of the rollers.
    #19
  20. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

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    You should be able to find a spec for the diameter of the pin heads after swaging for the brand of chain. That doesn't look too bad, BTW, it's close. Too much is worse than not enough, IMO -- you run the risk of cracking the pin heads and then you're in trouble. That looks like an RK chain? EDIT saw you said it's an EK.

    Quick google serach says for a 530 EK chain (I'm assuming that's what this one is) the pin diameter after swaging should be 5.70 mm - 6.00mm (0.224" - 0.236").

    BTW 10K per chain is on short side for chain life for a street bike. Make sure that chain is not running to tight -- setting it to spec without weight on the rear wheel sometimes can make it too tight when there IS weight on the rear wheel and the suspension compresses. Ideally you measure slack with a straight line between the centers of the sprockets. I would also replace the CS sprocket. Don't worry too much about the snap ring being "inferior" -- many CS sprockets are designed to have a little lateral float -- that's the whole point of splines -- to provide driving torque to a load that may be able to move along the shaft.
    #20