Franken Guzzi - hence Frankuzzi - a Desert Guzzi is born

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by Desertpistons, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    Thanks for the link to the Baja.

    Lets discuss the bike in general and talk about suspension.

    To be right with the age and period of the bike, the choices for the forks are 2. Either the Marzocchi Magnum m1 as the Baja bike or the Whitepower 4054 upside down forks. I believe the White power are better forks and beisde dont really want to build a Baja replica. So here you go with my the choice.

    Regarding the back shocks I will probably end having them manufacture based on my weight and riding skill if I cannot find them used in the right lenght and in the right conditions. The marzocchi original shocks (baja) are impossible to find, perhaps some vintage ohlins with a separate reservoir. I dream. We will see when we get there

    Let's talk about the differential and swing arm. The tt as the NTX have an aluminum swing arm and a very delicate final drive. I could reinforce and elongate that swingarm but I am stuck with that bad final drive.

    The baja bikes raced with the big block guzzi swing arm properly elongated and reinforced. My only option is to take down the baja swing arm and build a structure to be able to replicate the swingarm and maintain the correct geometry. The shaft has to be elongated too. Like the hpn BMWs; it is the same music the only difference is that g/s has a strong final drive!!! The pic above illustrate the elongated swingarm and different final drive

    So here I go, got the right final drive (big block guzzi), 2 swing arms,( i will cannibalize one to build the other swing arm) and a shaft that i have already elongated. I also got a used wheel that will work with that final drive, the stock didnt anymore. I didnt go with the 17' wheel but rather the 18' wheel. I have now a tt/ntx swing arm, a final drive, 2 shocks, a wheel with caliper mount, a back caliper, an axle and a rotor to toss or sell at an auction..:cry

    Pics are of the new wheel, the elongated shaft, new back fender and bit and pieces of my taken apart guzzi

    Attached Files:

    #21
  2. chris a

    chris a Been here awhile

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    Good stuff piston...
    I also know of several NTX/TT's that had the UJ blow , taking out the swinging arm and in one case also the gearbox back end ! I think this might also be why the Baja's had the big bloc UJ and s/arm as they are much stronger-the UJ will also allow much more movement as it has double couplings.
    I also wondered if they also played around with the drivebox ratio's on thye Baja's as a result...the small block ones only come in one ratio. Surely the extra weight was a disadvantage ???!!!!
    #22
  3. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    Thanks chris A

    You are right, better movement, less prone to metal fatigue is the double coupling. Regarding the final drive, I have actually 2 at home. One from a le mans (way too long of a ratio) and one from an eldorado which may work well. I need to check the ratios. I am pretty sure Guzzi guys would switch to a longer ratio if the dakar etage required a faster setting. That makes sense to me. I know that the last NTX were all 750s, did they have the same differential as the 650 ntxs? That i don't know



    #23
  4. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    .............I forgot to reply to weight question. Yes the big block guzzi drive is definitely heavier but it doesn't bother me too much. What bothers me is the weight of the back disk brake. That wheel with that brake weights a ton. Need to find a solution. I have looked at the le mans disk that is drilled, I may save a kilo there.I will see. maybe an alum flange and an aftermarket disk. I will be surprised if anybody else have not changed that set up on a street bike...



    #24
  5. Throbbing Missile

    Throbbing Missile Stuck in a rut

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    It would be fairly simple to bosh something together with a more modern setup. You could make most discs fit with a simple adapter ring or else have a custom disc laser cut. One of the little twin opposed Brembo calipers (the rear counterpart to the 6800s) used on the later bikes hung off a bracket hewn from some 12mm ali plate and job's a good 'un.

    Would it be worth using the floating bevel box off a Sport or V11? Long travel dirt suspension will be prone to jacking and the swinging arm itself may be easier to make.
    #25
  6. Precis

    Precis Maladroit malcontent

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    It was tarted up for the photos - it's in rather a sad state really - even for those that prefer "patina" and "autheticity".
    The owner has a very large stable and to his credit many of them get ridden, but the rarity of the Baja would convince me to at least prevent it rusting any more.
    But it's his bike, not mine; I've bought a bike from this chap and eventually gave up trying to rebuild it and just moved it along - only time I've ever sold a bike in pieces....
    #26
  7. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    Wow - cool to see something new (er... different).

    Might look good in the "some assembly required" forum...

    :evil
    #27
  8. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    You maybe right, and i will keep it in consideration but I would then loose the historical authenticity of the bike. I want to build a bike that could have come out from racing shop in the mid eighties. I have seen German NTXs with recent Guzzi engines and I thought over to do the same with my bike but then I reconsider it and decided to go my way. I own a Baja so it just a job to copy that set up and replicate it. I know who can do it and i know it will work well..


    #28
  9. Throbbing Missile

    Throbbing Missile Stuck in a rut

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    I completely understand. It's often very hard to draw the line with a project as each mod tends to lead to further mods.

    I'm pretty sure that Tony Foale and Dr John were using floating boxes around the mid eighties on road/race bikes. I'm quite surprised that the idea didn't make it to the Bajas. I've ridden early monolever G/Ss and the handling was horrific (although many other factors contributed...) - I can't imagine it'd be easy to float the front over the dunes on one of those buggers. I take it the Baja handles better than that?

    Whatever you decide to do, post loads of photos, I'm very keen to see how this turns out.
    #29
  10. chris a

    chris a Been here awhile

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    I know that the last NTX were all 750s, did they have the same differential as the 650 ntxs? That i don't know[/QUOTE]

    I used to think that All the smallbloc diffs were the same ratio so I just checked and found out that they are all 8/31 except the Breva and V 7 Classic which use 8/33.
    In the Guzzi smallblock drivetrain they get the different ratio's from varying the primary/input gears which makes good economic sense.
    #30
  11. chris a

    chris a Been here awhile

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    Floating drive box sounds like a nice idea but I would have thought it would be much harder to keep the shit out of the UJ's plus your adding more weight
    #31
  12. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    Gosh...almost one year since my last post. I need to accept the new reality of being a parent with 2 small children and having ZERO time to spare. Anyway, the bike is almost done and I will post some pics in the next few days, weeks, months of how it turned out.

    I maybe suffering from amnesia but it seems to me there was a function on the menu that was allowing to import pictures rather than linking to ones, knowing that in few months they will disappear. Anyone knows if this was removed from the menu?

    anyway a link to the first picture

    [​IMG]

    Mid 80s white power inverted forks, and a nice headlight grill which may function in case of need as a small rack.
    #32
  13. mentalfloss

    mentalfloss Been here awhile

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    I love it! More pictures whrn you get a chance.
    #33
  14. atgreg

    atgreg Africatwinarama Super Moderator

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    attachments have been turned off for a while you have to link
    #34
  15. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    Let's complete the front set pics. Next i need to find a place where i am housing the pics, probably my site. Not sure yet so i avoid them disappearing in few months

    I kept the stock headlight and cockpit. I didnt want to revolutionize the look of the bike. We custom made the little fork bracket that support the bottom of the Headlight and bolts in the bottom triple trees.

    The triple trees have been set with a steel column to add strenght and machined to fit with the guzzi bearings.

    ah... the color of the frame is yellow because the last official guzzi baja that raced at the dakar with Torri was yellow.....and yellow it is

    more to came....patience is a virtue :lol3

    <a href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/bba7g"><img src="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/bba7g.jpg"></a>
    #35
  16. Sonuvasailor

    Sonuvasailor Adventurer

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    Alas, I am not a virtuous man . . .

    . . . so hurry up! :D
    #36
  17. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    The swing arm took a good long time to do it. First because it is not a simple job of elongating the stock swing arm as the gs beemers. The stock V65tt swing arm is made of alum, and the stock big block swing arm is very short.
    We took off the baja swing arm, measure it and built a steel template after it, The template holds the swing arm in place before elongating it and reinforcing it so that everything is perfect once the welding job is done. I believe this is the biggest constraint for individuals who wants to modify any small block guzzi bike (v50, v65 and so on) in a tough dual purpose bike. You dont need to start with a V65tt, any small beaten guzzi with a tonti frame will do it.
    Of course I have the template and of course i can make other swingarms for the ones who want them.\:wink: but time is a virtue again
    The exhaust is very simple 2 into 2 with a removable cap mufflers. The cap is hold by 2 springs. You can pack the muffler after removing the cap. The bike is not quiet though. It has a nice low barking sound.

    [​IMG]
    #37
  18. Desertpistons

    Desertpistons 80s dakar

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    Nothing to do with my bike but just a lot of inspiration and a lot of copying.
    One of the last survivors , probably needing a complete restoration job. The right tank is gone, an ntx plastic tank put instead. Still love this bike as beaten as it is with a rotten exhaust....

    [​IMG]
    free image hosting
    #38
  19. Sock Monkey

    Sock Monkey Corporate slave

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    I use Photobucket. Free, and easy linking for display on sites like this one. I have pics there from 4+ years ago linked to this site and they still show up here just fine. :thumb

    -SM
    #39
  20. Dubl-A

    Dubl-A SuckerDucker

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    Cool front rack!
    #40