Front right Brake caliper rubbing on brake disc

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by OZZY-GS, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. Bayner

    Bayner Long timer

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    There's really not a lot of extra room to play with there. I got a set of stainless spacers from Scheffelmeir and was very close to rubbing, ended up with enough clearance in the end though. Perhaps the bearings in the new hub are just a tiny bit further apart than originals were.
    #21
  2. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    On an off chance, did they double check the races were corectly seated and did they retorque the bearings first thing when you brought it back? Do you know which brand of bearings they used?
    #22
  3. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    More importantly, is the bottom cap in place and is it a new one?
    #23
  4. OZZY-GS

    OZZY-GS Been here awhile

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    They removed wheel bearings and made sure they where the correct ones and also made sure they were seated correctly.
    I'm over thinking about the whole ordeal. I'm going to keep a close eye on it and see what happens.
    #24
  5. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    What I meant was the large cap they would have punched off the bottom of the triple tree, did they replace that?
    #25
  6. jengel451

    jengel451 1 Cool MotherF#$cker

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    It's going to be something simple.

    If it's the right side and the the entire assembly is too far to the right, the only thing that will give the incorrect spacing is the Axle to bearing step.

    Meaning, if the bearing is seated all the way, the correct bearing is in (Which you stated it is) then the only thing that will let the Axle be too far to the right would be the Axle itself is not far enough into the bottom of the fork cap, but if that's the case, your left caliper will be out of alignment too.

    The odd thing is if the Left Caliper was centered, and the right one is the only one that's out. Which would tell me that something else is up. Bent fork etc.

    No matter what, if the axle was the right one, and the spacers are all correct etc. it should be the same gap on both calipers, both right, both left, or both centered.
    #26
  7. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    Hi,sorry I missed this thread,,and Zach my technician was out with a cold today...

    Read everything twice to see what may have been missed. Or ass-umed:wink:

    Read everything over once more this AM 10 Nov '13,,will add additional thoughts italicized in yellow :deal
    Items needing clarification,,please check off/reply/correct...

    1,,Did you bring your bike to dealer with my wheel installed?

    2,, if yes,,.was your bike brakes functioning normally before you brought it in??

    3,,FYI,,,sitting on the bike the front axle comes in from the right side and pushes the front wheel against the left side spacer...this spacer determines the proper position of the disc on left side..if spacer etc are correct,,the left disc should end up centered on left caliper........If the hub's disc mount surfaces are the proper same/OEM speced dimension on both hubs,,,THEN,,,the right disc should end up centered in right caliper.....( I will check that dimension today and share it with you.)....IF your triple clamp /fork tubes/fork sliders/caliper mounts are not bent,,,then right disc SHOULD end up centered in the right caliper.

    4,, some quick measurements that will lead you to separating wheat from chaff
    A,,measure the distance from outside edge of left disc to inside edge of right disc = the centerline distance between discs.....both wheels should match,,,if the left disc is centered properly then all the components on left side are properly speced/fine....the problem would then be isolated to right disc mount surface too wide/far to right ,,,(it won't be anything to do with the bearing/axle because the axle will self adjust)....

    B,,with wheel out and the axle re-installed and pinch bolts lightly tightened,,,check to see if OA disc centerline distance matches the center-line of your calipers I ......it should be within 0-2mm I would guess.

    5,,IF the left disc is centered in left caliper then you have the proper spacer/bearing location:deal

    6,,IF you have the proper spacer / left disc properly aligned ,,,then we have
    Several possibilities for your current symptoms:

    A,,the hub is a bit wide ie,,pushing right disc toward the right edge of caliper.,,(a quick check would be to measure old disc distance and rad hub disc distance),,however you did mention that inserting the OEM wheel/disc assy gave the same symptoms hence it's unlikely that that's causing the problem so next thing to check are the forks....

    B,,with front end assembled,,axle tightened AND axle pinch bolts loose. ,,,we will now loosen the pinch bolts on either right or left side ...by rotating the fork tube 360 degrees and watching the disc /caliper interface ,,,you 'll see right away if the forks are bent,,,,because the caliper will move in and out in an orbit. You can check both sides that way...one or both bent fork tubes will give the results you are experiencing depending on the position of the fork tubes.

    7,,what puzzles me is that I am assuming that all this happened after you brought a well functioning wheel/ brake system to the dealer before he swapped out your steering head bearings

    8,, FYI,,I believe the RAD hub can be flipped because they opted not to use the BMW cir-clip technique,,the only difference is the seals are different,,,,OBTW,,,,the BMW microfiche is erroneous where it shows the cir-clip being on the right side,,TAKE A LOOK HERE:
    http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=55255&rnd=04302013
    Zach and i just looked at an OEM hub..like i figured the cir-clip is located on left side...not only that,,,, their is a little arrow molded into the left outer flange of hub to denote the proper directional orientation.!!!!


    9,, you can measure the OA width of your spacer/left bushing as BMW sez...and I'll check it against our data

    Ok gotta get some zzzzzs
    :freaky
    Woody
    #27
  8. OZZY-GS

    OZZY-GS Been here awhile

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    Thanks for looking at this Woody!
    I am going to leave it until I get back from my trip know but the dealer removed 1 mm from the spacer that shifted the wheel to the left. Fixed it for now but has confused me.
    When I return I will buy a new spacer and start taking some measurements as suggested .
    Will report back , hopefully with some answers.
    Thanks again



    #28
  9. xtr

    xtr n00b

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    Hello,
    Any news regarding this fix? Unfortunately I have the same issue with my F800 GS. I will visit my local bmw service in the spring but untill then maybe I will have an ideea about your solution to the problem.:D
    #29
  10. OZZY-GS

    OZZY-GS Been here awhile

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    No I haven't looked any further !
    It has not shifted since the dealer removed 1mm from the spacer .
    I just finished the BMW GS Safari and it stayed put?
    I will look next weekend and report back if I find anything strange.
    #30
  11. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    good on ya mate for making it back safe n sound:clap

    i re-read everything again...modified my post #27 and saw that another inmate xtr has a similar problem....:eek1:huh:huh

    is it also with a RAD hubed wheel ???

    Holler:ear:ear:ear

    woody
    #31
  12. xtr

    xtr n00b

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    Mine is oem wheel...but I bought the bike like this, without noticing from the begining. My solution was to force the right fork with 1mm on the exterior and now it's ok, but for sure this is not the right solution. Ofcourse there is also the spacer solution, but I was afraid to do it because of no turn back solution available without new spacer. So I'm also looking for a solution in this subject.
    Probably the spacer solution is better then mine, becouse it will not force the fork.
    #32
  13. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    IMHO,,,that's an emergency solution transferring your disc/caliper wear to now have your fork tube and slider having to bear the brunt of the problem,,,,the only difference is that at least your forks have some lubrication...

    Sooo now. That's 2 OEM F800gs set ups sporting similar problem with right disc/caliper interference/rubbing

    OK!!,
    1,,, so if left disc is centered in caliper..the left side of hub/bearing/spacer control wheel/disc centering/location ,,,and

    2,,,right disc rubs caliper,,,THEN!,,

    a,,,right side disc mount surface is too wide
    b,, outer mounting surface of caliper OR inner caliper mounting surface of fork leg are too wide causing caliper to be too far in as the most likely contenders.

    The right disc could possibly be dished too far,,triple clamps and crown mis-machined ,,forks bent inward,,all unlikely....

    Double check that your OEM hub has the little arrow that is cast into left side of hub pointing in the direction of proper rotation.....

    We'll get the bottom of this..

    Woody
    #33
  14. OZZY-GS

    OZZY-GS Been here awhile

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    Hi Woody,
    When the dealer was trying to work out what was wrong with mine they took a genuine wheel from a new 800 in the showroom and fitted it to my bike. Fitted perfectly?
    They checked bearings in the rad hub all good, measured the spacing of the discs and that was perfect ? They seem to think the offset of the bearings in the hub may be just out.
    This does not explain why I had not noticed it earlier? Maybe it was like it and I just missed it!
    You said before maybe I should try and flip the new rim over and reinstall in case the seals were installed on the wrong side. I have ordered a new spacer as my old spacer had been modified.
    I will also re check my original rim as I thought that rubbed when I tried it but now I am doubting myself.
    Will get back when this has been tried.
    #34
  15. xtr

    xtr n00b

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    It's a very strange situation....if the left disc is centered in the caliper, shorten the spacer(like ozzy-gs did) will move the wheel to the left, so also the right disc will rub the right caliper. In this case I don't understand what is wrong...if the fork is bended, the shaft cannot slide easy into the wheel and on the left fork, because those are no longer aligned and also the wheel will no longer be on vertical position...I think.
    On the other hand the distance between forks cannot be bigger because at this moment the right fork is at the edge of the shaft. Considering that the shaft is in corect position tighten on the left fork, the right fork is at the maximum posible position outside up untill the edge of the shaft and still the caliper is at only 1 mm from the disc....i think that the problem is from the caliper, but I'm definitely confused.
    PS. I checked the arrow from the hub and it's in the right direction.
    The only possible logical explanation, that I cannot point right now, it's from the bearings...probably those must be wrong installed, although my bike looks like new, with only 10000km....i don't think that the bearings were changed by the previous owner at this number of km. :baldy
    #35
  16. xtr

    xtr n00b

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    Another thing, if you take off from the discution the forks and take into consider only the aluminum fork ends with the shaft, theoretically with the tighten shaft on the left holder and the right fork aluminium holder at the right shaft edge(like it is on my bike at this moment), it should be enough space for the oem wheel/disc, not to rub/touch the caliper....isn't it? According to this, I don't think that the problem can be from the fork or anything above the aluminium holders....:huh
    #36
  17. xtr

    xtr n00b

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    My theory after today's work on the bike is that an idiot tighten the pinch bolts from the right before tighten the shaft and in this case the right fork was forced to move 1-2mm inside, towards the left fork. The fork worked in this way for a few thousands km and remained to work on this position....probably it's an idiotic idea, but after measuring everything it was clear that after tighten the shaft, the space from the right fork and wheel was significantly smaller from the one in the left, not leaving enough space between the fix part of the caliper and disc....
    What I did was to tighten the shaft first, pulled the right fork by fingers(not applying to much force) on the outside (the aluminium fork support is on the same face with the face of the shaft), tighten the pinch bolts from the right and then tighten the pinch bolts from the left. I put back both calipers and everything seams to be ok, although the disc now is in both sides more closer to the fix part of the caliper, but without touching it.
    It makes perfect sense....the idiot from above, did not pushed the shaft completely, tighten the pinch bolts in order not to rotate the shaft when he was going to tighten the nut from the shaft and the right fork moved towards the left....probably one case in 1000 bikes.
    Excuse my english, I hope you will understand....:D
    #37
  18. xtr

    xtr n00b

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    I checked on the internet to compare the position of the fork with the shaft and I can see that also in this picture the exterior face of the aluminium support is on the same position with the face of the shaft....so I believe that my theory is correct.(before this, the shaft face was outside of the fork support with at lest 2 mm)
    Maybe some of you can check this and give me a confirmation, because from the pictures, I maybe wrong.[​IMG]
    #38
  19. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    XTR,,,kudos to ya for going through the process of elimination:1drink

    i noticed we all agreed to the proper sequencing ,,,and ended up assuming that that procedure was followed....many additional tips were suggested about leaving the pinch bolts on righ fork leg loose AFTER tightening the axle nut, so that it would float freely into its natural position without binding the slider/fork tube.

    once again:
    1,,tighten axle nut to proper torque....this forces the entire wheel assemblyagainst the left axle spacer which in turn bottom out against the left fork. thus positioning the wheel and it's left disc in center of left caliper.....if the hub has correct disc mounting surface distance and the triple clamps have proper distance,,and the caliper mounting surface on right fork tube is in its proper place and if the right caliper fork lug mounting durface is in its correct position and the fork tubes are straight and the pinch bolts left loose and ya bounce the the front end a few times to let natural position be achieved...we should experience no problems after the pinch bolts get tightened:deal

    so i agree with XTR that if ya tightened the pinch bolts first before the axle wasn't properly torqued down...you will be able to achieve the results that OZZY-GS had upon leaving the dealership....

    IF the next person does the proper sequencing he won't re-enact the CAUSE of the damage,,,thus leaving everyone to scratch their collective heads...

    'mthinks that the finger points to the technician at the dealership as the culprit in OZZY-GS's saga.

    end of story i hope.
    thanks for the team -work
    :freaky
    woody
    #39
  20. xtr

    xtr n00b

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    I hope this is also the problem that ozzy-gs is faceing.(because is a simple fix)
    What must be clear for future visitors of this post is that after doing this mistake, if the fork will run like this for a long period, it's possible that on the next operation made to the wheel, the fork will remain in the same position(wrong one). I will get back to this post after 1-2000km to tell you if the fork will remain in the correct position or return to the wrong one (I hope not!)
    Thank you also for your answers and support.
    #40