Garage dust control

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by mach1mustang351, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. mach1mustang351

    mach1mustang351 Long timer

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    Hey everyone,

    I have a couple projects going, one is my 1969 Mustang that will be getting a lot of body work, and on the other half of the garage, I have my bikes.

    I don't want all the sanding, grinding stuff to get on everything. Just looking for ideas, I can't just open the door, there is Alaska winter out there.

    And experience appreciated. I always like to hear from people that have done this stuff.

    Thanks
    #1
  2. Al Tuna

    Al Tuna NSFW

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    #2
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  3. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    I got a dust collector off of CL for 100 bucks.... worth it. I've been doing wood work, like table saw & router, building cabinets. couple weeks of work & almost no dust in the shop. normally the would be tons. this is like a bottom of the line but these things really pull.... lots more force than a regular shop vac. there are attachments that might be good for sanding... I saw one at AIH thats about 3" high and maybe 14" wide. tie that on to a sandbag or maybe a stand with an adjustable arm
    #3
  4. tominboise

    tominboise Long timer

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    I did a 20” box fan in a wood frame mounted to the ceiling. I use two 2” filters on it. Works ok. A dedicated dust collector with a pickup at the source is better. Shop vac with a pickup to the sander itself works good.
    #4
  5. kantuckid

    kantuckid Long timer

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    I bought my ceiling dust unit off an ebay open box dented deal. Brand I forget as it's up there out of mind? Looks like a JET or a Shop fox but another brand? It has remote control like a TV. Uses furnace filters. Go to some small body shops and look around up there?
    Might also look on woodworking sites at dust collection-Woodweb is the premier place but there are others that are good, some more the DIY crowd making trinkets others have pro's on them.
    While not as cold here all body work goes inside in weather. How do you paint-or not? Whatever you do your health is at risk, so do something even if it costs some moolah!
    #5
  6. ydarg

    ydarg Miscreant

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    Also, I've found bare concrete to be a dust trap that you can never get clean.

    A redneck cheap solution I came across is to seal the floor with commercial floor polish. Three coats of this makes it easy to clean the concrete floor and it looks good afterwards.
    http://www.zepcommercial.com/product/Wet-Look-Floor-Finish
    #6
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  7. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    And even cheaper fix to concrete floors...paste wax...

    Box fans and filters

    Wet sanding, when and where possible
    #7
  8. Flipflop

    Flipflop Been here awhile

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    I do fiberglass work... I'd build a shed inside the room with 2x4's and 2x2's and hang 5-6 mil plastic on top of them. Then on the underside of the 2x2's hang enough florescent light fixtures that you can see what you are working on, both above and on the walls. I've got a pair of 4 foot enclosed sealed fixtures on a metal pipe sunk into a 5 gallon bucket of concrete with a pipe flange as its base so you can rotate the light works well as half the time you have to be between the light and what you are working on, and that means sanding out shadow lines. I use lathing strips about the thickness of paint stir sticks to catch screws to hold the plastic sheet against the framing. Works the treat.

    If you have a roll door on the garage, you can roll it open 4 inches, and put a 2x4 under it and pack the crack at the top with plastic bagged fiberglass batt insulation. Then you've got an air vent so you can force ventilate to air out the space. I use a big high speed squirrel fan blower like folks use for mold remediation, and run it blowing outside through a vent hose. That way you can take an air compressor wand and blow the dust off the surfaces, and the fan blows it out the door. Something like a dog door in a walk in door might also work if you don't want to pop a hole in the wall or build a wooden window insert.

    Part of the deal is that the shed room you build has to be strong enough to withstand blowing off, as before you start spraying primer and top coat you need to be able to blow it off to keep stuff from falling in the finish. I roll the plastic around two sticks, and screw the two sticks together so it isn't all wrinkled up. A door just means a pair of heavily folded rolled up ends that fit tight together.

    The other half of dust reduction, depends on how bad the metal is... You may need to prime with a two part epoxy initially then do your body work on top of that if you've got places that are thin metal or pin holed through, as polyester putties aren't totally water proof and you can end up with rust coming back if it can pull moisture through the panel.

    I do a lot of work with a manual hutchins speed file for the actual body work straightening out... as you can take a shop vac with a yellow sheet rock dust filter and keep most of the dust down just by taping the hose close to where you are working and using a 4 inch chip brush to brush dust toward it. Durablock makes some nice hard sanding blocks too that are easy to shape/customize if you want.

    Once it is straight, a high build primer is easier to fill evenly across all the panels than trying to trowel it up with a glazing putty, and makes for a bit less sanding. Just have to lay down a lot of material and keep a wet mil gauge handy so you know you've put enough on but still inside the limits of the rule book. I still like kitty hair and tiger hair and metal loaded putty to put a sanding base in that is as straight as the metal will let you get and hard sanding... rather than skimming out whole panels with rage gold and the like. Goes faster, as the real soft stuff disappears if you linger with a DA. I've got a random orbital air file that limits that, but if you've got a lot of detail in the panel shape wise power tools don't really fit well enough to not hurt as much as they add speed.

    If you really can't open the door, I'd be fairly cautious with spraying any of the two part iso cyanate cured primer and paint. Really bad shit, and with no air movement you can get real sick, particularly if your shop is attached to the house. Carbon filter respirators don't last but 45 minutes or so before they are saturated with all the iso they can take before you breathing it in. Sort of like the solvent break through time on a pair of latex exam gloves, they look like gloves a lot longer than they are keeping the stuff you are working with off your skin. The stuff goes through lips, eyeballs... and turn your lungs into rock candy.

    I've got a number of friends who have had cancer in their jaws and throat over spraying this stuff carelessly. Really supposed to use forced air remote fed respirators with hoods with that stuff, even outside. In the yacht building world, everyone just uses half face respirators and a prayer...

    Pulling the trigger on some of the newer PPG catalyzed paint is about like spraying clear coat, in that it comes off the gun like cotton candy and makes a cloud. They've had to pull all the VOC's out of the automotive products so the atomization and flow is chemical action, instead of the old stuff that knitted together on the surface and evaporated off the solvent to flow out. Instead it gets a second wetting once enough material is deposited on the surface.

    Depends a bit about how permanent of a finish you want, but I'd at least consider using Evercoat Slicksand and sticking to some of the older-tech that won't kill you quite as dead if you can keep the temp high enough in the shop to use it, even if you end up with a 2k sealer primer like ppg K-38 under a top coat of your choice... Repeatedly spraying iso-cynate, 2k stuff to get a good build in an enclosed paint booth is about as bad of a thing as you can do to yourself. Particularly if you are wanting to hop right every few hours and get back to blocking on it as soon as you can. Giving stuff a day or two to air out is a lot safer, as you don't really want to get chemically active dust in your lungs either.

    Good luck, stay safe!

    Zach
    #8
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  9. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Like Zach, partition off your garage to minimize the dust on the other side. Use old sheets to cover your bikes (better than bike covers), and make a dust filter like Al. Also, use a respirator. For an occasional user there are plenty of reasonably priced options for them, and your lungs will thank you. If painting your own, make sure you ventilate as well as possible, while using low VOC paints.
    #9
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  10. mach1mustang351

    mach1mustang351 Long timer

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    I won't be doing my own paint per say. I am doing the metal work and some of the filler work. I will have a professional do ths exterior paint, I will do the POR15 type coatings under the hood and under the car. I was advised today by a coworker he bought on of the ceiling mount units and he does well in his garage, he does a lot of wood work. May look into one of those.

    I want to do a partition too, but I am fighting space, and that may make the problem worse. Might get some supplies tonight and figure something out

    Great info everyone, I appreciate it
    #10
  11. rebake

    rebake Long timer

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    Send me all your bikes and you will have plenty of room.
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  12. Al Tuna

    Al Tuna NSFW

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    Winner! Close thread...
    #12
  13. mach1mustang351

    mach1mustang351 Long timer

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    That's a generous offer, Thanks!!! That would help the space issue for sure... The only one I am wanting to make dissapear right now is the VStrom... You want to fly, buy, ride to alaska??
    #13
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  14. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    This is how I am painting my project bike:

    [​IMG]

    It will look like this when covered, more or less.
    [​IMG]
    Mine will be fully enclosed with a fan and filters.

    Yours could look like this:
    [​IMG]

    Even just or dust and some primer it is worth it.
    #14
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  15. SafetyThird

    SafetyThird Pist-n-broke

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    If it were me, I'd get some epoxy primer on it and do the filler over it.
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  16. mach1mustang351

    mach1mustang351 Long timer

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    You're onto something there. This car has been "restored" at least 4 times in its life, judging by the layers of paint. I want this to be the last go around. Mustangs are pretty good about rusting. Might be the way to go.

    I was planning to do the metal work, make it a roller, and take it to a pro for finishing from there.

    I might try to get all the prep done, then take it in when it needs color
    #16
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  17. kantuckid

    kantuckid Long timer

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    I damned sure not gonna put paste wax on my shop floor! I troweled mine to make a smooth surface that could be swept with a floor broom, that's as slick as I want a work surface...
    I'm wondering if the OP has a radiant floor in AK? My concrete here in KY gets pretty cold and actually bad for your feet w/o being cold like now. I use rubber work floor matts for my feet and move them about in winter to keep my feet OK. The wood fire & electric doesn't do much for the concrete floor unless I'd run it all the time. In AK wow! the floor is a challenge?
    I've done quite a bit of AB work but can't say that I've ever put on epoxy primer then began filler work? Not to start an argument either...
    #17
  18. mach1mustang351

    mach1mustang351 Long timer

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    No radiant in floor heat in my garage. I do have a forced air unit in the ceiling.

    About the prime then use filler, I'm not sure either. My logic was, if someone was doing a longer term restoration, and stripped the car, they would want primer on the vehicle for corrosion issues. So as you worked through your bad areas, it would be sealed as you go.... I'm not a pro by any stretch, I took the classes while I was getting my Automotive technology degree in college. Never did auto body professionally.
    #18
  19. nickguzzi

    nickguzzi Long timer

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    [​IMG]
    We had similar to the above in the wood shop - except they weren't Jet, but these would be available to you. Not to be used with metal it says. Not sure how or why or how much they will tolerate.
    The claim was to maintain "hospital" levels of cleanliness. At least we could now see across the shop.

    Here, it is quite popular to obtain a used pop up marquee and drape plastic sheeting over it, similar to those already shown. Good for paint but don't forget to have a vent, but I think too small for heavy restoration, all that cutting and grinding, swearing and blood loss.
    Depends on the actual layout, maybe cover up the bikes rather than containing the crap.
    #19
  20. lnewqban

    lnewqban Ninjetter

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    A couple of considerations:
    Any filtration unit that you use will only be able to capture dust that goes by the unit. The rest of the millions of particles will linger and land all over the place. In order to avoid that, you will need to create a stream of air of significant velocity that flows around the source of dust and force it into the filter. Paint booths feed fresh clean air from the ceiling and exhaust it as low as possible (gravity helps dust and drops down-flowing with the airstream) towards the filter.

    In order to reduce the size of the fan, you could create a shelter or booth that encloses your project (reducing cross area of the airflow increases capture velocity). Using some return duct, you could recycle the filtered air into the booth, but concentration of harmful gases could build-up with enough time. If the air in the Garage is cold, the chill effect inside the booth will increase due to the velocity of the air.

    If you bring some fresh air into the booth, it is going to be freezing, unless you add an in-line heater (keep away from combustible materials). Besides, same amount of air will need to be exhausted from the booth or Garage.

    [​IMG]
    #20
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