Garages

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by Seth S, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    Is there a garage thread somewhere? Does this belong in the garage? so many questions. Closing in a house in 2 weeks...hopefully and planning the future garage. This is a serious design but a learning project and a way to learn to use Sketchup more efficiently at the same time. The model evolves easily enough.

    Currently drawn as a 24'x36' outside dimension base with 8" wide concrete frost walls and ultimately a 6" slab. First floor is 8' tall but roof is drawn as 12/12 and 2nd floor only runs part of the length of the building...effectively creating a tall ceiling for lift clearance. First floor is framed with 2x6's and the rafter design is still evolving.

    [​IMG]
    #1
  2. groop

    groop So much to ponder

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    Depends. Are you looking for advice? Tips? Do you just want to show off your design or learn more about Sketchup?
    #2
  3. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    any and all of the above. Never built anything structural before but have the benefit of a family with a construction company who help out and provide lots of info.
    #3
  4. Fe Man

    Fe Man I am Iron Moran!

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    I too am contemplating/planning a garage, prolly on the order of 32x40.
    :lurk
    #4
  5. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    I need to modify the end trusses for the roof and I need to increase the height of the main garage door as it is only 8' tall right now and I'd like it to be 10' or 12'.
    #5
  6. SRG

    SRG SRG

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    Random observations from bottom to top:

    Why 6" slab? Concrete is expensive. A 4' slab w/ 6x6 WWF is generally plenty. Do you need the concrete half wall? or can you begin framing at the slab level ? (much lees $$). If you need the half wall, doing it in 8" CMU should be less $$. If you do the half walls, why not standard length studs from there and gain the extra head room. Why 2x6 walls? If for insulation, there are more cost effective ways. The rafter design you show will require a structural ridge beam (because you collar tie is too high, it has to be in the bottom third to work) and ganged up 2x's structural posts at each end to get that load to the ground - right over your garage door, so it needs a structural header resting on more ganged up 2x's. Your simplest, most cost effective roof system is prefab trusses at 24" OC - look at the "attic storage" type for the area that has storage/loft above and scissor trusses for the part that will be open.

    No windows or skylights? These can make the space much more pleasant to be in and you don't always have to have a bunch of lights on. Make your garage door at least 9' wide, 10' might be better.
    #6
  7. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    windows haven't been drawn in yet. was focusing on the base structure first and then I'll decide on the passive lighting
    #7
  8. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    2x6 vs 2x4 I was thinking of strength vs insulation. but maybe 2x6's are cost prohibitive and the increase in strength is unrealistic...unneccesary.
    #8
  9. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    I helped a friend build a pro-level shop couple of years ago. These are some of the things I remember :

    A heating system and proper insulation so it can be used year round.


    A ceiling high enough that surface mount lifts for cars can be installed later if desired.

    Insulated space for air compressor ( with easy access for draining the air tank of
    water collected due to condensation ) so the noise of the compressor is reduced.

    Hard lines for air with lots of connection points so flex air lines don't have to be run
    across the floor.

    Built-in exhaust fan for quick removal of fumes.

    Twice the 120V power outlets you think you will need, 220V power so you can run a decent welder.

    Some of the newest flourescent lighting meant for shop use ( small diameter high output
    bulbs ) is amazingly good and also efficient. Proper lighting is better than having to drag
    a drop light around all the time.

    A sink and toilet so you don't have to go to the main dwelling for washing up etc.

    Drains built into the floor so water used in wet sanding or other tasks can drain out
    of the building.

    Epoxy painted floor for easy cleanup.

    Possibly a "mother-in-law" apartment on a second floor which you can rent to offset the cost of building the garage.

    Cat 5 or similar ( internet ) cable run to convenient points along with a wireless router.


    Definitely pay a professional architect a reasonable fee to look over your plans and
    make suggestions; there is no substitute for the knowledge of a pro architect, and
    the easiest way to deal with design mistakes is when the mistakes are still
    only on paper or in a CAD file.


    .
    #9
  10. SRG

    SRG SRG

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    CMU = concrete masonry unit = concrete block.

    No structural need for 2x6 wall in a one story building.

    It'sNotTheBike has good suggestions, some of which add considerable $$. His last paragraph is music to my ears.
    #10
  11. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    Thanks for the suggestions...these are all things that can easily be overlooked or forgotten about until afterward when it is either too late or costly.


    #11
  12. Dysco

    Dysco Diaper slinger

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    Radiant heat? Might be really freaking expensive. I use a space heater in my big cinderblock garage instead of heating the whole thing with the gas heaters. An infared ceramic gas heater might be nice and heat quickly, or a big woodstove might work to keep fuel cheap, perhaps both.
    #12
  13. FXRocket

    FXRocket Phoneticide Squad

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    Radiant heat can be done on a budget. You should surf around over at the garage journal.....Ill let you google that.
    #13
  14. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    a few changes

    1. Pulled off the roof for the moment
    2. Changed framing to 2x4's 8' tall.
    3. Changed to 4" thick slab on top of 4' frost walls...which may have to be taller.. I have a friend that built a similar structure here in Vermont and did an Alaskan slab. Not sure if I want to go that route.


    [​IMG]
    #14
  15. SRG

    SRG SRG

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    Radiant heat works very well in the right application. Where heat is the dominant requirement and the space is conditioned to a certain temperature and remains there throughout the heating season.

    I don't know where you are, but in most of the lower 48, heating a garage this way doesn't make sense unless you are living in it. Garages are generally not heated/occupied full time or set to some low minimum temp. and then when occupied need to be able to quickly warm up to a comfortable temp.

    One of the better solutions for a garage is to use a through wall heat pump similar to what you might see in a motel room. The unit can be turn off when the garage is unoccupied, you can leave it set to maintain a desired minimum temp and when you want a comfortable temp. to work in they can warm up the space quickly. You also get A/C out of the deal and they are reasonably efficient. Running a heated slab full time is not, nor will you be able to alter the temp. quickly and there's no A/C. Through wall units need only one dedicated 110v circuit and a hole in the framing to mount it.
    #15
  16. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    was thinking of heating the garage through the winter to 40 deg. shut off in summer. It will be a while before I build anything so right now its all up in the air.
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  17. Dr Klaun

    Dr Klaun Been here awhile

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    Unless you go with a solar hot water system.... My neighbor is building a large barn / shop that has all PEX in the slab (about $1200 for materials) and has built a DIY set of solar panels for heating the water - (these are not hard to find online and are pretty simple) that will be run through a used high eff. boiler that he bought off craigslist. This will provide a nice median temperature for working (average of 60-65 deg. in the winter). To me, nothing beats radiant heat for comfort, especially on a slab. It all depends on how much the space is going to get used. The package unit heaters are OK for smaller spaces, but a large garage volume could get spendy to heat on a regular basis depending, again, on how much they'll need to run.

    The OP didnt' say where he's from (unless I missed it), but not sure why you'd need to go 4' to the frost line. I've been designing in cold climates forever and rarely need to go below 2 per local codes'.
    #17
  18. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    Located in Vermont. 4' was a guess..though I thought I remember reading frost line was in that ball park. Temperatures here in the winter range from 20's and 30's above to 20 below zero
    #18
  19. Lobby

    Lobby Viel Spass, Vato!

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    Sounds like you're designing before you determine what you want out of the structure. Think of this in words, not dimensions:

    "I want a two story garage, big enough to place a car on a lift so I can change oil and replace disk brake pads. I want it to hold 2 cars. I want some space on the side for my tools and motorcycles. I want it to have an upstairs apartment for my 75 year old mother in law, who can't climb steps and requires an elevator...."

    Once you have that, then you start drawing. But in pencil first. Then you talk to an architect to get his ideas. Then you make final design. Then you talk to the architect again.

    Or you can just go talk to an architect from the beginning.



    Sorry if I came across rude. Didn't mean to.
    #19
  20. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    Oh I have a pretty solid idea of what I want the structure to do and what I want it to look like. Why use a pencil and paper when I think better with 3D models and sketchup is great. I much prefer to model it as if I were actually building it. As I do it this way I learn construction methods and how to solve other related issues. When I am done I have a good estimation for the amount of concrete I will need and the quantities and sizes of lumber. I can then use these to estimate my materials costs so I know whether I need to go smaller on the design etc. If I were in a rush and had to build tomorrow I would just hire an architect and go that route. I also have the advantage of a parents who run a construction/design company with many years of experience who are happy to answer questions and make suggestions.


    I do appreciate everyone who inputs suggestions and comments etc. I changed the construction above based on some earlier posts and discussion.
    #20