Garmin Montana

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by AugustFalcon, May 18, 2011.

  1. mbabc

    mbabc Curmudgeon trainee

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    Look here Jeff...

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20220917&postcount=19
  2. Rocky TFS

    Rocky TFS Been here awhile

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    Yup, that about exactly defines it!:lol3

    But I do love that Aussie girl late at night in a strange city after 10 hours on the road.....:rofl
  3. TravellingStrom

    TravellingStrom Been here awhile

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    That is strange, what version software are you using?


    [​IMG]


    During this ride, the road it expected to be there was not quite there, it was actually over there a bit. So, after bypassing the small village, I got back onto the expected road again. During this time I got a Route Calculation Error and clicked on OK, and was then back on the map screen, riding on a road, no route active.

    Once I was back on the road, I used the 3bar menu and selected resume Navigation.

    This is using a multi image map in South East Asia. I get many many Route Calculation Errors here as some of the roads have been built since the map was made and updated, and others are not quite classified as roads :)

    Cheers
    TravellingStrom
  4. MizzouRider

    MizzouRider Long timer

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    Mark,
    Thanks, but this is the replacement solution for the guys that want to get away from the torx screw.
    I'm fine with it. I suspect it provides a bit more security than a quick release screw.
    Is there a way to just fix the locking mechanism that's already there, and not have to pull the screw? I've got the wiring run beneath the tank etc. I do t want to have to take it off.

    Ha!! I called Garmin, they told me to just squeeze the top and bottom and the screw should catch.. I'll give it a try. Duh..
    Jeff
  5. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    I brought up too many subjects at once I suppose. I was trying to understand Via Points vs. Shaping Points to see if I was in agreement on their *definitions* first. Then I added the question regarding Via Points vs. Points (total) as displayed in Basecamp and that is completely different and not directly relevant to the Montana in a way.

    IMHO in your example, you CREATED a route and you controlled the selection of 103 Via Points (some or all may actually be Shaping Points but that is not part of your example here)... So in my mind those 103 Via Points are an INPUT to the routing algorithm (mechanism) in Basecamp.

    Then what I think Basecamp is showing is that because you then had Basecamp autoroute it (because you selected Automobile activity and not Direct activity), BaseCamp looked at your map data in CNNA and added extra "hidden" points to complete the route. These do not show up in your route Property tab yet now the total "Points" is 202.

    But the "Points" being 202 is only an OUTPUT in Basecamp, it is not really relevant because the Montana is going to do its own Routing algorithm and that is based on your INPUT which was 103 Via Points only, so the Montana may route exactly the same and end up with 202 identical points or not (this has been debated a lot, I think some have posted Garmin as saying Basecamp has its algorithm and the firmware in GPSr's have their own but for the Montana a later FW release updated the Montana algorithm to "match" the Basecamp's (or maybe close?) - separate topic!).

    Then when you went to the Montana with your Route with 103 Via Points, the Montana will behave differently based on the mapset you use and the Activity you had set for it to use for Routing.

    In your example, my claim is that it doesn't matter if you used CNNA or Topo USA (which may be a non-routable map?) because the key is that you set the Activity for Routing to be DIRECT. So if you set it to Direct then it isn't trying to autoroute so it is happy with the 103 Via Points (and the reported 202 "Points" displayed in Basecamp is irrelevant and confusing).

    I agree.

    MY CONCLUSION: is that if you pick Direct on the Montana then that overrides everything as the Montana is then NOT even trying to autoroute and does not have the 50 Via Points MAX constraint we have been discussing. So it doesn't care about the map that just "happens to be displayed" below the 50 Via Points because it does not use the map to pull internal data from it on where roads are for turning, because you are not autorouting at all in Direct!

    p.s. All of my earlier questions were NOT using Direct as the Routing Activity on the Montana as I don't find that interesting - the goal is to use autorouting on the Montana and that is what I am trying to figure out. I view using Direct on the Montana as a workaround because users are having trouble understanding the ins and outs of autorouting, which is what we really want.
  6. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    That's what I'd try too - making sure the Montana is completely in the mount, then pushing the clamp together.

    If it happens that you have to change the screw, I'm sure you could put a slightly longer screw into it without having to take the mount off the bike.

    If you need a replacement from Garmin, ask them to send you one ahead of time and use yours the way it is for now. It's best to use the locking screw but the mount works just as well without it, except it's not locked. I often don't lock mine so I can take the unit off and get pictures with it.

    It's never come even close to falling off when it's not locked. But don't forget to put a lanyard on it anyway, of course.
  7. Yossarian™

    Yossarian™ Deputy Cultural Attaché

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    +1

    I have run mine over nasty bumpy terrain, jumps, etc., without the locking screw engaged. Never any movement.

    I do, however, use a quick-release lanyard as a fail-safe.
  8. Emoto

    Emoto Sure, why not?

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    What are you guy liking for lanyards? :ear
  9. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    Doesn't need to be anything special. I have a small carabiner on the end of mine and loop it around something solid like a mirror stalk then clip the 'biner back to the lanyard.

    [​IMG]
  10. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    Garmin's response:

    Greetings,

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. It should be corrected in the near future.

    Please don’t hesitate to contact us should you find any additional issues.

    Happy Exploring,

    Joshua

    Joshua M. || Cartography Administrator
    Garmin International || Olathe, KS USA
  11. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    WHERE please?

    Sorry for all the newbie questions but...
    If this is documented then we don't have to be doing all this painful experimentation and discussion!

    Again we are talking about the number of Via Points created in Basecamp (including any number of Via Points that happen to actually be Shaping points), then transferred to the Montana and used for any Routing Activity OTHER THAN Direct. And assuming CNNANT is identical on both BC and Montana.

    My experiments show that in order to be able to press GO in the Montana and have it succeed with auto-route when it is in Automobile Activity mode for routing...
    ... it is slightly dependent on the Activity Profile set earlier during its creation in Basecamp. A Direct route is limited to 50 Via Points (any kind, including shaping) MAX, and others are limited to 51 Via Points MAX (any kind, including shaping).

    This is practically a "Don't Care" and I will just call it a 50 Via Point Max, personally. Can I get an "Amen"? Is this correct?
    Perhaps when I quote others there is not enough context and THEY are talking about Tracks, and that is what I am trying to figure out. :eek1

    I was trying to say up front that I am only talking about Routes, I understand Tracks (basically, coming from a 60Csx before the Montana) and yes they are totally different in the points allowed, and there is no autorouting involved. And to be clear I don't mean to pick at your words but "shape" and "Track" should probably not be used in the same sentence as it is misleading. I know you already know this but my point is... a track is a set of let's say breadcrumbs that simply show up and are connected with straight lines, so I suggest we reserve the word "shape" only for Routes.

    Again I'm just trying to learn the "GPS lingo". Sorry to read you so literally but it's like learning a new language here. :eek1
  12. Yossarian™

    Yossarian™ Deputy Cultural Attaché

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    Something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Except I didn't get one from Garmin. eBay was my friend this time around.
  13. gots_a_sol

    gots_a_sol Been here awhile

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    Reminder video for those without lanyards (A low hanging branch hit the release button dead on)

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jd8LGMy8Xmo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    I have a lanyard on mine now (paracord + quick release buckle)
  14. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    ? Direct Routing WHERE? on the Route in BC or the mode in the Montana?
    Ok let's break this down:
    First, In earlier discussions we have established there is a 50 point max if you take a route that is Direct in Basecamp and then put it on the Montana and try to use any mode EXCEPT Direct on the Montana, meaning if you try to use it for Autorouting.

    That is not the topic here. This topic is "250 point maximum" and "Direct".

    So now I'm thinking that perhaps what people are referring to is that on the Montana itself (forget Basecamp!), if you have your Setup->Routing->Activity set to Direct, then you cannot use any route from BaseCamp that has more than 250 Via Points in it, or it will truncate.... ??

    Ok I'll do another experiment...

    I made 2 Routes in Basecamp, one with 102 Via Points (2 Waypoints + 100 Shaping Points), then I just kept inserting more shaping points until I had a total of 266 Via Points (2 Waypoints + 264 Shaping Points).

    With the Montana set to DIRECT routing mode, when I did Where To? pick a route, the GO button appeared and it successfully showed the route and the little blue markers and told me to go straight to the next marker (since it is in Direct mode)!. So far no obvious errors, but DID IT TRUNCATE? The answer was: YES!

    Results:
    1. The 102 Via Point route showed all 102 Via Points without truncating. You can tell be cause it shows my Finish (destination) Waypoint in the upper right.

    2. The 266 Via Point route truncated after 250 Via Points! This I can tell because it deleted the last 16 points in the upper right, including my Finish (destination) Waypoint in the upper right.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Key Learnings:

    So therefore the Montana has a limit of 50 (or 51) Via Points (including Shaping type of Vias) in NON Direct mode, beyond which it will not autoroute AT ALL (white screen 50 Max error!)... and the Montana has a limit of 250 Via Points (including Shaping type of Vias) in Direct mode, meaning it will only display the first 250 and truncate all the rest, INCLUDING the (last) Finish Waypoint, i.e. your destination? :clap

    Is this right? Do I win the prize for repeating things as a newbie? :freaky The ironic thing is... I DON'T THINK I EVEN CARE ABOUT DIRECT routes, I want to do autorouting! But perhaps I'll learn that this is a valuable workaround to the 50 point limitation of the Montana for autorouting.

    Does this explanation all make sense to you experts? Surely I'm driving you crazy enough to point me to some of this that is explained somewhere when you figured it out months ago? :eek1
  15. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    Ok I think I see the difference. I have not played with mine enough to get a Route Calculation Error so it actually stops navigating, that would explain why later it has the option to "Resume Navigation".

    My original question was if I had selected Prompted for "Off Route Recalculation", then when I go off route and it asks me if I want it to recalculate, to which I reply No..... my question was if later I wanted to force it to recalculate, how would I do that. But I never got an error.

    My only answer is to Stop Navigation then start on the route all over again with Where To? because it is still navigating and does not give me the same options you show.
  16. atlas cached

    atlas cached OX Ambassador

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    Where do you see this option?

    The only two options I am ever presented with for Off Route Recalculation are "Minimize Distance" or "Minimize Time", and if Topo maps are loaded I may also see "Minimize Ascent".

    Never do I see "No."

    The Montana never asks if you want to recalculate, it asks how you want to recalculate.
  17. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    One more clarifying example to go along with my earlier Post 6862 about how BaseCamp displays Via Points, including shaping via points, and also my Post 6882 about the item called "Points" at the top:

    1. In BaseCamp using Direct for the activity profile. This shows 7 Via Points and that includes the Start Waypoint, the Finish Waypoint (destination), another Waypoint I added named "Stetson" and 4 Shaping points I added using the Insert tool.
    It shows 7 Via Points, and also 7 "Points" (aka total) because it is in Direct mode so it did not have to insert any more hidden points because it did not autoroute any more turns:

    [​IMG]

    2: Now the ONLY change was to change the Activity profile to no longer be Direct. Here I chose Motorcycling. Observe the change in the total, called "Points" which is now 28 because now BaseCamp had to autoroute and pick more points for the turns and apparently these are hidden from the line item display of the original 7 Via Points, which still show up the same:

    [​IMG]

    Once again all of this is my OWN "proposal" and I'm looking for you experts to validate that this is in fact correct. I'm trying to come up with a "model" so I can understand all of this. :deal
  18. Rocky TFS

    Rocky TFS Been here awhile

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    WHOOOEEEE!!

    This horse is really beginning to stink!!!!!:rofl

    Congratulations to Snooker for being willing to experiment CAREFULLY and log all actions and results!
    Excellent experimental protocol. :clap

    (Glad I got it mostly right with half as much work...:lol3)
  19. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    May as well save $600 and just use a map and a highlighter then. :dunno
  20. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    Too late for most of us, including Bli55. :lol3