Garmin Montana

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by AugustFalcon, May 18, 2011.

  1. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    You need to go back to routes in Basecamp and choose the "Activity" appropriate to the route. If you want to route on road choose that kind of activity. If you think you might want to edit the route in the Montana, choose "Direct" otherwise you can't edit (insert via points, etc) the route at all in the gps. All the other activity types result in routes which can't be altered in the gps.

    And you should give up on using Mapsource. It does look easier, but it has none of the advanced capabilities needed if you want to get the best out of the unit.

    Especially when it comes to map loading to the Montana (or 62/78/Oregon/Dakota), Mapsource is antiquated and better used on 60/76 and older gps. Use MapInstall.
  2. Rydah

    Rydah Remember the Night Rydah!

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    My routes on Basecamp are all "direct" in the activity box. You're saying I need to use something else, like "motorcycling"? When I change it to anything else but "direct", my routes get all messed up. In "direct" mode, they all follow the roads perfectly, in Basecamp. It's on the Montana that they get weird. What setting should I be using on the Montana? I've tried "direct, motorcycling, etc" on the Montana, as well as "locked, not locked on road", yet nothing seems to make it look like what I have on Basecamp.
  3. atlas cached

    atlas cached OX Ambassador

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    Your routes will not follow the roads in Basecamp with activity = direct.

    Look carefully at your settings.

    Export them to your Montana in Direct mode, then change the activity on the Montana.
  4. Rocky TFS

    Rocky TFS Been here awhile

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    First, I would not use MapSource to transfer the routes to the Montana. Use BC.

    1. Open a route in BC with CNNA 2013 as the map, open the properties window and set the activity to Direct.
    2. Make sure there are no more than 49 via points. (in the summary box)
    3. Look at the route on the map, then change the activity profile to automotive (or whatever) and watch the recalculation. Does it appear to be what you want?
    4. Pull down the activity profile select on the toolbar, (not the properties window) and select Edit Activity Profiles. Select the profile you are using (other than direct).
    5.Select the Routing tab and look at all the preferences and avoidances, choose those that make sense for that profile.
    6.Go back to your route, swap activity to Direct and back to whatever you just edited in step 5. Does the recalculation make more sense or less? Play with the routing options until you get what you want.

    NOW, one last time set the activity to direct and transfer the route to the Montana. Before you activate it, go to Setup Menu>Routing and match all the activities and avoidances to those you just set up in the BC activity profile.

    Note that you cannot edit the activity directly, but you can change the calculation method, avoidances, etc. Note that Lock on Road will have NO effect on how the Montana recalculates a route.

    FINALLY, activate the direct route with the Montana set to the IDENTICAL map version of CNNA and watch it recalculate. If all goes well, the route will match the BC version.

    Remember, you only have to do this once for each activity profile you will ever use, so it's not as difficult as it sounds. Once you have the profiles matched in BC and the Montana and they do exactly what you want, LEAVE 'EM ALONE!! :lol3 (and back up these profiles from the Montana/internal storage/Garmin/Profiles folder to your computer)

    Piece of cake!:rofl

    Also, when you are creating routes on routable maps like CNNA, don't try too hard to outsmart the routing function by including a whole bunch of via points, and whatever via points you do use should be AFTER any intersection or on-ramp, or you will get annoying u turns, next exit loops, etc.

    Generally, after much experimentation I have learned to start with the simplest autoroute, usually just two points, and see if it works as expected. If not, then I start adding via points to force it.

    I have not had real good luck with CNNA autorouting out in the Boonies, so I use a non-routable Topo map and direct routing for those rides. Then you can have as many via points as you want. Besides, I like having contour lines and the greater cultural detail of Topos.

    Although it is perfectly OK to leave the activity set to Automotive or Motorcycle before transfer, you will not be able to edit or reverse it on the device, which is why I always set it back to Direct before transfer.

    Good Luck......have patience, Grasshopper....:1drink
  5. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    I have found that you can have as many via points for direct (point to point) routing as you want on Basecamp but only the first 250 will show on your Montana once you transfer the route to it.
  6. atlas cached

    atlas cached OX Ambassador

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    Good to know!

    I guess the wiki is correct, then ;-)
  7. Rocky TFS

    Rocky TFS Been here awhile

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    Right, 250 vias, 10,000 track points....my bad.
  8. Rydah

    Rydah Remember the Night Rydah!

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    Finally, a great reply in plain, layman's terms! :thumb:
    Thanks for taking the time to explain to the noob (me). I'll try this method as soon as I can get back on my computer. Like you, I always put my viapoints just after the turn, fork, etc. Just curious too, but would it be too much to ask you to list what settings you end up with for typical dual sport riding (activity profile, avoidances, etc.)?

    Thanks, good to know. So that's 250 per route, or total? I like to break up the ride into several smaller routes, so 250 per would be easy enough. 250 total might take some modifying.
  9. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    I think there may be some misunderstanding about routing.

    We have a separate Routing thread for the Montana where I've tried to start at square one and define terms and then build up concepts, examples and best practices. Please read that and ask routing questions there. I am new to this and tried to gather up all the answers I found and summarize them there. (DRTBYK you were off on a trip so I'd like you to review it and bless/edit the info there please?)

    In summary, after you have transferred a Route to the Montana, the Montana itselft has a limit to the number of points it can route - this refers to any kind of via point, be it waypoint or even shaping point from Basecamp. The limit depends on the Routing Activity you have set on the Montana via the Setup->Routing->Activity selection:

    - For Direct routing (i.e. not auto-routed but straight point to point), only the first 250 points will be used and the rest will be truncated.
    - For any non-Direct routing (i.e. auto-routing will occur), you can only have 50 points total in the route or it will NOT autoroute at all.

    In my mind most people want to auto-route (i.e. non-Direct routing) so that the Montana firmware will have an algorithm that autoroutes based on your Avoidance preferences and the data it finds from the "routable" mapset that you currently have Enabled. So this is limited to 50 points total or it will NOT work at all.

    Furthermore a best practice is to create the route in Basecamp then set the mode there to Diret before you transfer it to the Montana. This has several side benefits plus the main benefit is that it is then more editable (and reversable) on the Montana.
  10. Rocky TFS

    Rocky TFS Been here awhile

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    250 per route.

    I have two basic profiles in BC, one for paved only and one for dirt and pavement. I just created two new ones called paved auto and unpaved auto, although you might prefer to customize motorcycling and dirt biking.

    The only difference is paved auto is shorter time and avoid unpaved roads and narrow trails, and unpaved auto is shorter distance and avoid interstates and narrow trails.

    The reason is I use the Montana only in the truck and the BMW so far and don't do much dirt on the Beemer. I'm getting close to adding a mount on the Yammy, so for that I would probably use the dirt biking profile which is shorter distance and avoid only Interstates....not much difference.

    Since I almost always use a non-routable topo for serious dirt it's moot anyway.

    On the Montana I have 6 profiles, but only routinely use three. One switches to the topo map and changes background and vehicle, one switches to CNNA and background and vehicle and avoid unpaved, etc.

    The profiles on the Montana are far more powerful and customizable than in BC and it would take many pages to tell you all the possibilities. Go to the Wiki Montana site first: http://garminmontanagpsr.wikispaces.com/Features


    My primer only deals with the most important matching of routing settings; many of the Montana profile settings will have nothing to do with routing, which was your original problem.

    But it's pretty neat to be able to make your Montana look just like you want and I spent a lot of time customizing it!:D
  11. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS

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    The v4.80 is out:

    Fixed one of a few annoying bugs I had while in South America...


    Changes from version 4.70 to version 4.80:
    • Improved EXIF compass heading data in camera photos (650 and 650t models).
    • Fixed issue with changing profiles when the altimeter dashboard is active on the main menu.
    • Fixed issue with certain characters on the Czech or Polish keyboards in landscape orientation.
    • Fixed issue with shortcuts that enable or disable maps remaining highlighted after being selected.
    • Fixed issue with displaying tracks on the map after performing an area calculation.
    • Fixed issue with saving a track's 'show on map' status across a power cycle.
    • Fixed potential issue with renaming tracks or routes.
    • Fixed potential issue with viewing geocache descriptions in night mode.

    Cheers,
  12. cablebandit

    cablebandit Web Adventurer

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    No mention of this issue that I see. I had to roll back to 4.6 to make the unit usable again.
  13. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS

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    I only had time for quick test of the Return Arrow issue but it seems to be working now.

    Cheers,
  14. cablebandit

    cablebandit Web Adventurer

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    Thanks Dan,

    I'll backup and give it a go.:deal
  15. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS

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    So, quick tests are usually not the most reliable. :norton

    Return Arrow behavior is still inconsistent.

    Cheers,
  16. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS

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    snooker,

    I've done a quick scan of the Routing Thread and don't see any glaring miss-info. When I have more time I'll read each post and if I have any additional insight I'd be happy to post there.

    I can tell you [all] that although I have investigated Routing extensively over the years on GPSMAP 276/376/478, zumo's and the Montana, I don't use Routing much in my planning process. I am use it more these days on the Montana while on Tour just to see how it will calculate compared to our Tracks given my Montana/BaseCamp Profile Settings and the Map I'm using. As you may know I always have a Track as "backup" to any Route I create in BC when I use use them on my Montana: "...Trust but Verify." (only us old folks will recognize that quote) :gerg

    I will be interested in working with the new BaseCamp Trip Planning feature (when/if it comes to MAC-BaseCamp).

    Cheers,
  17. Rocky TFS

    Rocky TFS Been here awhile

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    We've been busy while you were gone!!:rofl
  18. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    To be clear... this is for using the Montana in Direct mode as well, only the first 250 will show and the rest are truncated (whereas any non-Direct mode pukes if more than 50 and does nothing).

    Repeating others but yes that's 250 per Route but only in Direct mode on the Montana. Is that really what you want?

    Hi Rocky... I guess I wasn't thinking about using Routes with the Montana set to Direct Mode like this (I come from using only Tracks on a 60CSx)... but I see your point in general. But this leads to a question...

    For OFFROAD trip planning, if you have a decent topo map that is routable like the Garmin 24k Topo, I see potential in using BaseCamp to pick a few points and let it autoroute the way you like it while adding shaping points until it is close to what you want (in BC only). Then why not (IN BC) create a Track from that Route and then simply use the Track? You can fiddle with adding points as much as you want and in the end you have NO limitations by just using it as a Track (ok well 10,000 points per track).

    In fact in this case the routable map (like 24k Garmin) might be useful during the early autorouting phase (or not), but in either case later on the Montana you just use a track, and the map on the Montana is completely independent.

    Is there a downside to doing this? (haven't tried it yet)....

    I was just in Moab and it seemed most of the trails (e.g. Monitor and Merrimac) visibly showed up on the Topo 24k yet if I remember correctly they would not auto-route (so no data for them for the autorouting algorithm???). Is this common? If so is there any rhyme or reason (unpaved may not route or ?). UPDATE: Ok I was wrong, at least in BaseCamp the small trails I see visible on the Topo 24k map do indeed allow them to be autorouted, even the smallest 4x4 roads that show up.
  19. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    Actually I like an older admission of yours better - that basically said you mainly use Tracks and that Routes are just along for "fun" - e.g. to get trip computer type data as you go (time/distance to destination, etc). That made me feel a lot better about all this Routing BS that I've spent WAY too much energy on.

    Tracks.... "Don't leave home without them!" :lol3
  20. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Having iterated a bit figuring out how best to utilize my 600 and the Aus Topo maps and BC this solution is where I've ended up. Works well.