Garmin says *!$# U to customers!

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by coloktmGS, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS

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    Not yet - working on it though.

    Cheers,
    #61
  2. MrMac

    MrMac Been here awhile

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    Well, this didn't take long:

    http://www.trimble.com/Outdoor-Rugged-Computers/junot41.aspx?dtID=features

    Unfortunately, the retail starts at around $1500 and up. Still, it is a start..

    For most of us, I'm not sure the payoff of ruggedness may be worth it. For going on 6 years now, my primary GPS has been a standard WinMo PDA running CoPIlot (along with an assortment of other Navi programs), inside a Ram-mount Aquabox. I've used this on my Vstrom and KLR with many miles of off-road use. I never had a problem. Unfortunately, both the OS and software are pretty much dead-end products no longer supported. On a recent 3k mile trip with my wife, I swapped between the PDA and my Android phone. The phone version has live traffic as well as more up-to-date maps, so was worth it in some places. My only gripe is the capacitive touch screen (can't operate with gloves) and sometimes an in-coming call would shut down the navigation app. Apparently the new Juno (above) also has a capacitive screen, so no real advantage there. Looks like that may be one thing I'll have to get used to.

    I'm seriously looking at using this as a dedicated GPS:

    http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/mp3-players/YP-GI1CB/XAA

    This way I can keep my phone separate from the GPS, with everything else (music, camera, bluetooth) in the navigation device. But of course, no real-time traffic and searching. Decisions, decisions..
    #62
  3. Renegade_Azzy

    Renegade_Azzy Kamen Rider

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    Recently been using OSM maps on my Garmin, and have to say, for the most part, they work out fine. There are some routing fixes that garmin hasnt seemed to figure out in the past years (like a local interchange with rt 40 that garmin hasnt included since it was built about 8 years ago), but the OSM maps also have some odd directions at times.

    I have not tried them offroad yet.
    #63
  4. MrMac

    MrMac Been here awhile

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    IF what you really want are the DEM's, anywhere in the US is downloadable from: http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

    Lower '48 has 1/3rd arc-second (~10 m) coverage nationwide, with 1/9th arc-second (~3m) in some areas.

    Now, if you want contours, shaded or color-relief derivatives for background display of terrain, that is a bit different, and *should* be available in the coming months from the same site.
    #64
  5. viverrid

    viverrid not dead yet

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    But it does indeed have Bluetooth. What a first world problem. If you want to listen to 6 (or 16) speaker surround sound, take your car.
    #65
  6. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b

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    Most of the map data comes from government agencies. You and I have already paid for it. There are no more gaps in OS maps than in NAVTEQ maps.

    Two places that OS maps fall short (in my experience) are 1) points of interest, and 2)map editing such as making all sections of a road into one unit. NAVTEQ isn't perfect but it's far, far better.

    The place where OS maps win hands down (in my area and areas I've traveled through) is trails, ATV trails, and logging roads.
    #66
  7. reepicheep

    reepicheep Been here awhile

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    Garmins licensing and DRM will be what kills them... not because the software costs money, just because the DRM makes the software not work.

    I have several Quests laying around (I picked up some spares on Ebay when they started hitting the sub $50 mark). Aside from the flaky built in antenna (just use an external one), the only times they have let me down is when the DRM has gone haywire and screwed me up. Every time I update my OS on my host machines. Whenever a new version of MapSource comes out. When I plot a round on CNNA V7, but then want to load it to my backup unit (which is CNNA 2007 or something) and can't without re-plotting. And can't "downgrade" the CNNA 2007 to CNNA V7.

    It makes otherwise very nice hardware very frustrating. I'm sticking with them for now, but can't bring myself to drop $400 for a Zumo when I know Garmin could (and has) pulled the rug out from under me on a whim.

    They are free to do what they want, but they are undermining their own value proposition when they trade control (theirs) for loss in reliability and usability (mine).
    #67
  8. MrMac

    MrMac Been here awhile

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    If Garmin would make an open device (ie. Android, since that seems to be the only current option) based in their existing hardware, include their software, and do so at an affordable price, I think they would easily grab both the consumer and a huge portion of the professional markets. Pros need to be able to install custom data collection software and integrate with their desktop and enterprise GIS systems. Consumers need a better choice and more flexibility.
    #68
  9. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS

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    Last time I looked Garmin owned 70% of the consumer market. What would be their motivation to move to an open source code base that they have no control over (sic)? Just to be clear, Garmin does use some open source code but it is wrapped within their proprietary code.

    Cheers,
    #69
  10. 1911fan

    1911fan Master of the Obvious

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    I'm very frustrated at the moment. I bought a used 60Cx, and neither Basecamp nor Mapsource shows Forest Service roads until I'm so zoomed in that routing is impossible. I've got City Maps NT, and I've got the product key, serial number, all that- but when I try to download it to my laptop it says "Product key already consumed."
    Basecamp appears to be a freeware version, many of the controls/tools are shaded grey and don't work. I've got no top data either. Looks like I get to buy all the maps that I already have?
    I've called Garmin several times to resolve this, but each time I get a robot telling me that it will be 30 minutes or more before I can talk to a human. They are open the same hours I work, so unless I can take time off to sit on the phone, I'm screwed. I sent an email, haven't heard back though they said it would be three business days.

    Just created an OSM account and will play with that. FWIW, I've had an Etrex for years and like it. Wanted to upgrade for DS rides.


    1911fan
    #70
  11. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    Hate to break it to you but a 60 is not much of an upgrade from an eTrex. They are both from the same generation of products. And Basecamp is freeware, but it's made for newer gps units than either the eTrex and 60CSx. It can work with the 60, but you'll need to read the documentation.

    Re: the Maps. You'll need to speak to Garmin, but even though their voice system says the wait will be 1/2 an hour, I've rarely had to wait that long.
    #71
  12. bhorocks

    bhorocks Been here awhile

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    Tell that to rim.. I remember a time when people were excited about blackberries..


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    #72
  13. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    Well, they were supplanted by Apple, another proprietary manufacturer. :lol3
    #73
  14. FixerDave

    FixerDave KLR650 - XR200R

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    The code base doesn't really matter. The map source, on the other hand, will be significantly open source (OSM most likely) because there is no way they could make competitive maps without it. I would be surprised if Garmin weren't already at least looking at this data, if not actually using it in their maps. At some point, it will become easier for Garmin to add their proprietary stuff to the OSM base rather than OSM bits to their base.

    I don't doubt that Garmin will keep selling maps, but people will be able to get the OSM data for free so Garmin is going to have to work a hard-sell. Maybe they could get away with superior routing for a while, but eventually OSM will catch up there too. Garmin makes some good hardware... expensive, but good. They run a proprietary locked down system but it is already hacked... you can compile and run your own maps on Garmin devices and they didn't want you to do that in the beginning. Eventually they will embrace this, or die.

    David...
    #74
  15. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS

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    As an OSMF member, I agree that it is the future of digital mapping. I personally don't think Garmin was ignorant of the benefits of "allowing" their mapping code to be reverse engineered. The fact that they still haven't changed this code appreciably could be a testament to that. Garmin strategically positioned themselves to move in just about any direction they want when it comes to licensing map data. This was evident when they made no attempt to purchase Navteq after TomTom purchased Tele Atlas. And you might note that all of their Lifetime map licenses are limited by the life-of-their-license with Navteq.

    I currently don't believe that Garmin is using any OSM map data. If they are, they would be in violation of the OSM licensing agreement. For the future, you may be right. By adding a small uplift to unit price and including somewhat enhanced OSM maps, Garmin would be in a much less contentious position regarding mapping data - but I think that move will/would be some years out.

    Unlike RIM, Garmin is a very well run company: IMHO. I think they are smart enough to continue to grow the consumer market even with the pressure from smartphones. Not to mention their competitive offerings in many other market segments: i.e, Marine, Aviation, Fitness, Government.

    Cheers,
    #75
  16. sakurama

    sakurama on an endless build

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    I lived in NYC and had three 276's stolen and each time I had to buy all new maps. Each time I would call them and ask them to please let me recover the maps and each time they said, "Gee sorry, what's your cc number?"

    The last time was the last time. I'm sooooooo with you. They took their advantage and used it to bend people over and squeeze out every nickel they could and I can't tell you how bitter it made me toward them and I've used Garmin's from as far back as the late 90's.

    For me it's now all about the iphone as my single device. I am having my new iphone 5 coated with Liquipel so it will be waterproof sans case and then I'll get a Taktik case for riding off road. The Garmin can't do 5% of what the iphone can. Maybe not even 1%. And it will only get better.

    The iphone (or other smart phone) is the way to go. You can simply choose what GPS and maps you want - Navigon, TomTom, Motion-X etc. Now that I've had time to play with the iphones iOS 6 maps I'm actually far more impressed than the whole freakout about them not being any good. The 3d vector technology is simply stunning for looking at roads and canyons and understanding the topography. It's amazing. About the only way I'd ever own another Garmin product is if Apple bought them. Which might be smart.

    Garmin right now is to personal devices what pagers are to phones - a limited idea just waiting to die a quiet death.

    Gregor
    #76
  17. Fire Escape

    Fire Escape Long timer

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    After all my complaints about how G has almost gotten away from the great, round, 4 pin power cord and the fact that I have hard-wired several of my vehicles with them, I got in the truck, tried to plug in my 60CSx and broke the power+ pin. It was weakened from getting corroded several years ago during boat use, I should have checked and cleaned it more often rather than assume that gold didn't corrode. I spent two hours yesterday between my files and "My Garmin" trying to find out if I could get it repaired (well more likely replaced, I have never gotten the same unit back from repair) before giving up for the day. I had to send the unit back many years ago because the 'mounting' button came off the back, of course the unit I got back had different serial and unit numbers (there is a reason to have two numbers?) and despite having to call and get new codes to use my existing software (at least I could do that!) with the replacement, they don't seem to have any record of me owning the 'new' unit that they sent to me.
    I have been b%^&*ing about having to rewire everything to USB to be able to use my DeLorme, now the only way to power the 60 will require the same, guess I better get working on that.
    I really have liked every one of my Garmins (7 so far) but nearly every one has needed to be sent back at least once. They really do cost too much to be considered disposable (IMHO) but trying to have them repaired can be a maddening process.


    Bruce
    #77