Genuine Hooligan 170i Official thread!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by longhaul747, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    I thought I would start an official thread for the upcoming Genuine Hooligan 170i that is set to ship the 1st week of May and arriving at dealers shortly after that. My nearest Genuine dealer expects them if everything is on time to be Tuesday the 13th thru Thursday the 15th. Of coarse it depends on a lot of variables such as when they actually ship and how long it takes the shipping company to get it here. So until they show up nothing is official.

    This is the next scooter on my hit list. I have been curious for some time and I like the Zuma like design but a stronger motor. SO far not many official details have come forward. Just last Saturday it went officially live on the Genuine web site. I am still partially reserved but it will probably still happen. One of my concerns is overall size? I am hoping for something a little larger then the Zuma 125. Judging by the pictures released so far I would say its safe to assume it is a little larger. I am also curious about the dashboard? Is it all high tech and cool or is it plain Jane basic? No official photos have been displayed that I have found. However the PGO version of this scooter has a fairly cool dash.

    Also have not decided on color. At first it had to be flat black but I think I like the military green.

    Price is a bit shocking at $3,399. I know Genuine is pretty highly rated and fit and finish from what I have seen is first rate but this is not a Japanese scooter being put out by the Japanese big 4. So I feel its sort of handicapped. However in the other hand its only a few hundred more then a Zuma 125 and it should be in theory a larger scooter with a bit more comfort and a lot more power. Should be able to run circles around the Zuma 125 at least one that is stock!

    Below is the page on the Genuine site. Not much real info yet.

    http://www.genuinescooters.com/hooligan.html
    #1
  2. Oldenuftaknowbetter

    Oldenuftaknowbetter Been here awhile

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    Msrp on the 2014 Zuma 125 is $3,390 in California. From what I can gather the Hooligan is larger and a little heavier than my Buddy 170i, with 12" wheels, disc brakes front and rear, and dual shock rear suspension vs single on the Buddy.
    #2
  3. JerryH

    JerryH Banned

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    I wonder if it has the same engine as the Buddy 170i. It seems to, displacement is exactly the same. I don't see an oil cooler, but it is probably hidden under the bodywork. It is still air cooled.
    #3
  4. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    Wow so the Hooligan 170i is in fact the same price as the Zuma 125. Hopefully the Hooligan is a bit larger then the Buddy's. Buddy's just look so small however surprisingly once seated they feel just fine.

    Just what speed does the Buddy 170 top out at?

    According to an early press release its not exactly the same motor. Similar but the Hooligan 170 will have some enhancements. Unknown just what those enhancements will be. I doubt it will be anything mind blowing. Probably the same everything just some tweaking to the fuel map.

    Right now I am thinking of parting with the Agility 125 and the Super 8 150. Both carbureted and I did not appreciate the long wait on some very benign parts. Overall great bikes but I won't need them with some of the new stuff I am getting. The Super 8 I will break even on but I will loose 50% on the Agility. I might keep one of them just for the heck of it and be more valuable as a keeper then get nothing for it. I got 3 weeks or whatever to figure it out.
    #4
  5. aidanpryde18

    aidanpryde18 Adventurer

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    Reminds me a lot of the Kymco Yager, but with a much better grill.
    #5
  6. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the detailed info.

    Hmm size wise at least on paper comparing specifications its just a hair larger then the Kymco Agility 125. Both have a 51" wheelbase. The Hooligan is 74" long and the Agility is 71.5" long. Width is 29" on the Hooligan and the Agility is 27" wide. Seat height is 32" on the Hooligan vs 31" on the Agility.

    Size wise I was hoping for something a little larger. However I will reserve final judgement until seeing it in person. Despite similar specifications in size it just may end up looking a lot larger. A few inches here and there can make a difference. Also the Agility has a huge whale tale for a fender and that can add a lot to the total length. The Agility 125 is actually a pretty tiny scooter.

    HP rating (11.2) and claimed top speed (65MPH) is also a bit low. However if its truly a bullet proof motor and it runs solid inside its design envelope I really don't care that much. Still thinking maybe 13 or 14HP and a top speed of 70 to 75 would be a lot better though.

    Despite its larger sized motor this does not look like it could beat a PCX 150.
    #6
  7. JerryH

    JerryH Banned

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    The SYM seems to be in a class by itself. It is the fastest scooter out there for it's displacement, it has the larger wheels which could hopefully be fitted with real tires that will last over 5000 miles, it is liquid cooled, and best of all, it has a carb. So much for a carb being a performance liability.
    #7
  8. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    I really need to go out and take a look at SYM. Slowly but surely the dealer network is growing. Still not really convenient for my location but it looks like Seattle Cycle Center recently picked up the line. So they are slowly heading north towards my direction. With the amount of dealers here in the North end someone is bound to pick them up.

    I am still very interested in the Hooligan 170i however I am still somewhat reserved. I am starting to feel its not really very much scooter and it seems a bit overpriced. Yeah it has some modern amenities like fuel injection and likely an advanced instrument cluster. Its likely to have very good fit and finish. Probably be a very solid and reliable scooter. However "Bang for the Buck" it is not.

    Looks like the best bang for the buck in this class is the Lance PCH150. Specs are pretty dang close to the Hooligan 170i. You give up some modern amenities like fuel injection and a hit in fit and finish but the rest of the package should be fine and deliver years of reliability.

    PCH150

    Wheelbase: 52.16 "
    Length: 75"
    Width: 27.16"
    Seat height: 31"
    HP: 10.3
    torque: 10.8
    Curb weight: 240.3 lbs

    Hooligan 170i
    Wheelbase: 51"
    Length: 74"
    Width: 29"
    Seat Height: 32"
    HP: 11.2
    torque: 7.82
    Curb weight: 280 lbs

    Not sure why the Hooligan 170i would have less torque.

    I bet with the Hooligan 170i being heavier it would end up feeling about the same on the road as the Lance PCH150.

    I am really starting to feel the Hooligan 170i is going to be a bit to small for my taste. I am not looking for maxi scooter size but something with a little more body then a Zuma 125 or Agility 125. Also its just so expensive for what it is. If it was just a little larger and a little more powerful I think it would be totally cool and worth it but so far I am not seeing it.

    A friend of mine suggested maybe I go in a slightly different direction. Perhaps instead of getting a Hooligan 170i go for a Grom? Price wise they would be about the same.
    #8
  9. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scootist

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    Sounds like the Honda PCX 150 comes close to all those dimensions... well, except more horse power, a lower seat height, and a stronger dealer network. :wink:

    As I recall, that's on the list somewhere... but it is fun watching all the wheelin' and dealin'. :D

    And that new Burgman 200 seems to be a slight step up from these, as well. Not being nosey, but... what's your end goal with this next scoot?
    #9
  10. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    No real end goal. Just like owning lots of bikes and its a lot of fun. Usually I get a certain number I am happy with and keep them for years but I have been purging a lot of older ones and decided some of the newer stuff was not going to work out long term either. Not saying it makes any sense but I enjoy it.

    The PCX150 puts out 13.5HP. The PCX125 puts out 11.7HP. Curb weight on the PCX is 278 lbs. So it looks like even the PCX125 will be faster then the Hooligan 170i. I think its the classic air cooled issue of being built to lessor tolerances and as a result the power just is not there. Its likely the Hooligan 170i will not come anywhere close to the same fuel economy as the PCX. Its highly variable on the PCX but I have gotten as high as 110 MPG on mine.

    I still think the Hooligan 170i will be a great and cool scooter and perhaps you will end up getting more power out of the engine then what is published. However its the same price as the leading PCX. I think Genuine might be getting a little ahead of itself and thinking they are bigger then they really are. My crystal ball is telling this scooter should be no more then about $2,500. At its current $3,399 price point after fees and taxes its going to be over 4 grand. Its size and numbers on paper so far don't justify that. Even for me!

    I should probably reserve final judgment until I test ride it but so far I am a bit disappointed. Funny thing is my nearest Genuine dealer did not seem all that excited about it either. First thing mentioned was they hope its a bit larger scooter then Genuine's current offerings.
    #10
  11. JerryH

    JerryH Banned

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    I just can't see a Grom being comfortable for a full sized adult. The layout is different on a scooter. The Grom looks like a motorcycle for someone 4' tall.

    I still don't see FI as an amenity. I now have 2 FI bikes and 3 carbed bikes. The FI bikes do not run or perform any better than the carbed bikes. My new RE Bullet has both FI AND a choke. I think the main difference is when something needs fixing, the carb will be a lot cheaper and easier to deal with.

    I think my main concern with the Hooligan is that it is based on what was originally a 125cc motor. The Buddy 150s seemed to do fine, but 170 might just be pushing it a bit.
    #11
  12. 6speed

    6speed Adventurer

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    Hey LH 747, Tortise mentioned to me that Lance is coming out with some new models. One is the Lance Cabo available as a 150. It has the look of the Yamaha Zuma/BeeWee and the specs are the same as the PCH just different tires and front fairing, FWIW.

    You can find them on carolinafunmachines.com

    6

    Be well
    #12
  13. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    Surprisingly the Grom fits full size adults just fine. I have sat on several now and was pleasantly surprised. I doubt it will hold up comfort wise after several hours but it is certainly rideable. Now practical? Probably not at all!

    Carbs work and simple to engineer and keep many bikes at a lower price point plus the standard for a long time. However its 2014 and after owning several carbed bikes and fuel injected bikes its my opinion fuel injection is where its at. Carbs would probably be a non issue in warmer climates and real gasoline but lately they are kind of a nightmare. I am sure the EPA has a lot to do with it as well.

    Now in a perfect world and if the carbs are well set up it really does not matter. My old Reflex was a good example. For the most part you could not tell if it was carbed or fuel injected and got 71 MPG. Only when it sat for a long time it was difficult to start. Most of the time you just had to crank it 4 or 5 times to prime the carb. However once it fowled a plug during the process but for the record it was an aged spark plug. Most bikes thanks to the EPA are not well set up. Of coarse same is true for fuel injection but at least they start as needed and most of the time don't mind the garbage they are trying to pass as gas.

    Some new stuff coming out that is cool. Probably not going to get Serious with Lance or Sym any time soon but that could quickly change once the dealer network and support is in full swing.

    Right now I am in a holding pattern. The Hooligan is still a solid contender but I will have to see it in person and ride it. If its larger in stature then a Zuma or Agility and seems to have good power and fit and finish is first rate it could still happen. With 2 trades its not really that difficult to pull off but if I am not satisfied with what I see then I will go in a different direction.
    #13
  14. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

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    I was thinking about the hooligan but am leaning to the Cabo.

    [​IMG]

    I have two SYM/Lance products that have been rock solid. I don't need the top end so the 150 would do the job for less bucks.

    Be Big,
    AMAC
    #14
  15. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    Pretty nice looking scooter. With the Cabo 150's lighter weight I doubt it will run much slower then the Hooligan 170i in the real world. Its carbureted but also $1100 cheaper.

    The Hooligan is growing more out of favor every day :-(

    I looked at the specs for the Zuma 125. On paper the Hooligan 170i and the Zuma 125 are practically identical except for weight and power output. Still I should reserve final judgement until its seen in person. Most scooters have similar specs on paper but in person they are all very different.

    Did a lot of thinking last night. I was giving serious thought of just trading the PCX125, Super 8 150 and the Agility 125 straight across for the 2015 PCX 150 and being done with it.
    #15
  16. Chillis

    Chillis Land Barge Pilot

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    That is sharp and what the Hooligan should have been. Instead they got rid of its cool digital dash of the X-Hot and added the ugly and cheap nacelle and gauges.
    #16
  17. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    Found this write up tonight on the motor scooter guide website.

    http://motorscooterguide.net/Genuine/Hooligan/Hooligan-170.html

    Reading this makes it sound a little more like it should. They also claim 15HP output witch is more like it and a 2 gallon tank witch will actually give you some touring ability over a 1.6 gallon tank.

    Still need to see this in the flesh and test ride it but I am gaining some confidence it might end up being a cool scoot.
    #17
  18. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    Yeah you may be right about the optimistic HP ratings. The new Burgman 200 is 200cc's and a technical marvel in comparison and its 18 HP. It would be tough for an air cooled 168cc engine to get 15 HP. Not impossible but it would probably take a state of tune that would sacrifice fuel economy and long term reliability possibly. I don't think fuel injection changes much when it comes to HP. The real benefit to FI is more accurate fueling. Maybe a bit more power but not a lot.

    Still thinking a Grom instead. I still have plenty of real scooters and a little monkey bike would be fun. However its only 125cc's and air cooled so probably not comfortably fast enough for around here. No storage capability. Also a little concerned about safety. The Grom is surprisingly roomy for adults but its foot print and bulk is pretty minimal. A scooter has a lot more pork so you can be seen easier. Not sure if it makes any real world difference because drivers are blind but it is something I thought about.

    I am trying to talk myself out of this Grom idea!

    Biggest problem with the Grom is availability and dealers are still playing pricing games. My max price is about $3,900 OTD but dealers seem to want about $4,500. Apparently Honda got the memo and a bunch of Grom's will be coming soon to satisfy the market and likely then some. So pricing should stabilize. What is so odd is if I put a deposit down they can get me a Grom in a week but no deposit it could be months yet they have no waiting list or other deposits. Its like the shortage is artificial and if you are serious they got one for you.
    #18
  19. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer

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    This looks interesting. I figure it will be a couple of years before I'm ready to replace my Super 8 but I am keeping my eye open for a suitable replacement. I would like something around the same size and weight as my Super 8, but with a little more performance, bigger gas tank, better fuel mileage, and better cornering clearance. I don't want a big wheel scooter since I prefer the nimble handling of smaller wheels and the bigger under seat storage of small wheel scooters. 12 -14 inch wheels would be fine. Right now the Movie 150 and Fly 150 are at the top of my list but I'm hoping something better will come along. This might be it.
    #19
  20. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    Last November I picked up a used 2009 Super 8 150 with 2,400 miles on it and in pretty good shape for a measly $900. It was really one of those split of the moment decisions I now kind of regret but the price was pretty good and I have had some fun with it.

    I really like the size of the Super 8. Its kind of between a small scoot and a mini maxi in size. I am hoping the Hooligan 170 comes in at a very similar size.

    As for power the Super 8 150 seems very adequate. Seems to get around a tad better then the Agility 125 and seems to have a hair more reserve power. Handling is very crisp but the ride is a bit harsh. For me it has its place and I like the handling and the ride quality does not bother me.

    My only real complaints is the spotty carburetion. If you run it every day or every few days it starts great. Push it much past a week and it starts a little harder. Past a month it won't start until after you drain down the battery and kick it dozens of times. When it finely starts it will idle at half speed making all sorts of scary noises from the engine until it warms up enough to stabilize. Its not so bad so far this Spring but during the winter it was kind of a nightmare. I have since tuned it up and seems a bit better.

    Also at the moment it will start fine when cold. Not even that cold blooded and you can pull away after 10 seconds. Turn it off and get right on it and it will start. However let it cool off for 15 to 30 minutes and then get back on it the bike won't start. I have recently learned that if you pin the throttle it will start when its brackish but if conditions are not right you could fowl a plug easily. The by starter appears to be working correctly.

    Also I wish it had a bigger gas tank. I seem to average about 65 MPG and I usually need to get fuel around that same point. I have had to stop for fuel twice in the same day just running local errands.

    Also the few parts I needed took forever to get. I ordered an air filter online from one of the best Kymco part source last November and it just came about 2 weeks ago. They said it was a stock item but they sold out and it just took that long to get them back in.

    So other then some parts taking a while to get and the spotty carburetion plus the small gas tank its a pretty cool scoot.

    My plan is to be done with carburetors and part with the Agility 125 and the Super 8 150 for the Hooligan 170 if it fits the criteria. If I am not satisfied with the Hooligan 170i then I will part with them plus my PCX125 when the new PCX150 comes out. Probable be about even and that would leave me with spare cash in reserve for another bike down the road.
    #20