Genuine Hooligan 170i Official thread!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by longhaul747, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Thanks for the comparison picture. Perhaps its trick photography but from what I can see it looks like it towers over the Buddy 50 and it has a lot more girth towards the back as well. I am pretty sure all the Buddy's are the same size or at least extremely close. So its not just the 50 that is small.

    If it comes in about the same size as the Stella I would be satisfied with this and about what I would expect.

    I got a bit of logistical issue coming up. I will be out of town from the 12th all the way until the 21st. Knowing my luck it will arrive in that time frame and sell to someone else or demoed to hell and back. This would force me to wait for the next round and who knows when those will show up? Probably mid to late July!

    Really my last opportunity will be Tuesday or maybe Wednesday next week. If not I will have to ask the selling dealer to sit on it for a week and a half witch they probably won't want to do without an official deposit. However I feel some sympathy and understanding and partial blame goes to the dealer for being one of the last ones to get it. Since I bought so many bikes from them they should just hold it but this might be a good test to see of they are loyal.
  2. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7,219
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    So you might have to wait till mid July. What's the big rush? It's not like you don't have anything else to ride.
  3. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Yeah true!

    Just concerned the first batch or two of Hooligans will be limited. I bet by early fall though they will be sales floor queens and maybe even the pricing will be discounted a bit as we have already seen with other countless introductions in the scooter world. So any sane man would just wait for that time to buy. However I am not all that sane so there you go!

    At least the Honda dealer agreed to hold my Grom until I get back. They said its very likely it will actually be in at some point next week.
  4. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    926
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
    It will sit. There's no rush on the showroom, lol.

    I don't know when we built up Genuine to be the great "sellers of scooters". They sell two models, that's it. The Blur and roughhouse don't sell and I have a feeling the Hooligan will do the same. The inability to properly introduce a product doesn't bode well for the ability to service it and supply parts IMO.

    Once past the Stella and Buddy they have done nada.


    Be Big,
    AMAC
  5. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    926
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
  6. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Thanks for the link on the Cabo 150. I think its a pretty cool looking scoot and very affordable. If only it had fuel injection! Nothing wrong with carbs for the most part other then I am no longer supporting them

    All I am getting on the Hooligan now is its on a slow boat from China. Probably end up being July either way at this point.

    I am pretty close to bowing out for the time being. I got a Grom coming in a few weeks and then shortly after that the 2015 PCX 150 hopefully. I am now thinking of concentrating on those new bikes through Summer and then late Summer or early fall bringing in a Hooligan 170 if I so desire.

    Right now the writing is on the wall. Genuine is having difficulty getting the Hooligan to all its dealers. This makes it a bad time to be a customer. The Hooligan will likely be day late and dollar over until the supply catches up witch I doubt will be long. AMAC1680 is correct that Genuine only has 2 hits. The Buddy line and the Stella.

    I can see dealers paying the limited supply game and demanding top dollar with inflated fees on at least the first batch or 2. Makes it tough on a guy who wants to only pay MSRP plus T&L and maybe a doc fee.

    LOL....I bet my Grom deal gets killed by inflated fees as well. So really my next new scoot will be the PCX. I am actually willing to pay Honda's published shipping fee on the PCX and the Grom but never an inflated fee. Currently $310 for the PCX and $125 for the Grom.

    This is totally random but someone at my credit union this morning was applying for a loan to purchase a new Honda Grom. So a dealer in the area must have one but never had a chance to ask who.
  7. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scootist

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,799
    Location:
    Wandering (but based in the Tropical Tip of Texas)
    $125 for a 225 pound Grom, but $310 for a 286 pound PCX?? Sounds like someone is inflating that PCX "shipping fee", huh?
  8. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Yeah I was wondering that myself however this is direct off the Honda website. Its just below the pricing info on the left hand side!

    2014 Honda Grom

    http://powersports.honda.com/2014/grom.aspx

    2015 Honda PCX 150

    http://powersports.honda.com/2015/pcx.aspx

    At least Honda puts it on the website now. Makes a little harder for dealerships to gouge on the fee. Supposedly the manufactures covered this as part of the deal for the dealers and dealers charging it was just double dipping. However I think most if not all manufactures don't do that any longer so its unfortunately a legit charge. Much like a destination charge on new cars.
  9. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Just took a RTE (Ride To Eat) and decided to swing by the Genuine dealer and talk about options for my upcoming vacation. It just turns out the Hooligan just literally rolled off the truck. They have not even had the time to research my number just yet but I was going to get a call tonight.

    They got 2 in and they both need to be PDI'ed and have the batteries charged. I was lucky enough to go in the back and have a look.

    First impressions are very positive. Its definitely a step above in size compared to the Zuma 125 and Agility 125. Its more in line size wise to a Super 8 150 witch is good sized 150cc scoot.

    Fit and finish is very good. I would not say its as good as the Zuma 125 but still very good. A lot of quality hardware on this bike like a rear disc and the brake calipers at least "Look" pretty good quality. The LED turn signal lights look pretty cool.

    After I arrived they agreed to PDI one of them but I had to decide on the color? I tell you its a tough choice. Really as far as the style of scoot it is the black is where its at. It definitely looks pretty Hooligan'ish in the flat black. However the green is pretty cool as well. After debating it I agreed to have them PDI the green one but I can always change my mind.

    So tomorrow at some point they will call and I will stop by for a test ride. If it rides nice we will talk numbers. I will likely be trading in my 09 Super 8 I bought for cheap last November.

    Took a few pics....

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
  10. maddiedog

    maddiedog In dog we trust

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    307
    Location:
    Marietta, GA, USA
    I'm looking forward to you breaking it in to see max cruising speed / max speed. FI + 170cc = ??mph... I'm guessing it'll max at 70mph and cruise at 60-65, but that's all speculation. The Buddy 170i gets almost that much speed, but FI makes a huge difference if tuned right.


    Unrelated to the thread, but related to bikes mentioned here, I really hope the Grom gets more common. I have a dream to take a Grom, big bore it, add aero fairings, make the gears stupid steep, and add luggage for a picoweight / 100mpg highway cruiser. If the damn things weren't so expensive / impossible to find, I would have started that project by now. I already even have sketchup drawings of the fairings. :evil
  11. Chillis

    Chillis Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,567
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    Cool idea with the Grom.

    The Buddy 170i, from the accounts on Modern Buddy, say actual speed is not much more than the 125 and 150. The speedos just read very high.
  12. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    926
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
    My estimate from test ride would be once its broken in 60 mph cruise, 65 pushing it. It won't see 70mph with a normal size human on board.

    It doesn't matter because it's not a "top end" machine by design. It was a "utility" concept. The suspension on this scoot is the bigger deal.

    Again just my .02

    Be Big,
    AMAC
  13. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Supposedly any time now the Grom should become a bit more common. Then again they were saying that 6 months ago and it seems the supply is a little slower now then when it first came out.

    Oh wonderful...Just got the call!

    I am out of here!
  14. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    I got it and its home.

    I arrived at the dealership at about 2:30pm. The final touches on the PDI were being completed so I had to wait a few minutes. During that time I had some cold bottled water and took a look at the Zero line of motorcycles. I tell you the Zero bikes are starting to impress me more and more. Especially the DS model. I had visions of one day buying one and planing a trip down the West Coast and eventually ending up in Santa Cruz. The birthplace of Zero motorcycles. With an advertised range of around 150 to 160 miles it could be done as long you plan your stops with an electrical outlet and time to charge. Then I read the fine print. Its 150 to 160 miles City but on the highway its 60 to 80 miles if you are lucky. This is for the fully optioned battery version. So depending on how fast you go and the terrain the range is really very minimal. So in reality these are really best as commuters. They also filthy expensive and the one I was looking at was about $17K. I had a bit of time to work the numbers and it would take 17 years for it to be worth it. I did not even factor in new tires so maybe more like 20 years.

    They say sales of the Zero bikes are up a 1,000%. This is of coarse from next to nothing sales numbers so twice as much as nothing is still nothing. Still its obvious what we will all be riding in the future. I figure if they can get the price well under $10K and get the real world range up to 250 to 300 miles and take half the time to fully charge they will be worth it!

    Right now I see them as a very expensive toy that is not yet ready for prime time. Zero making progress though and they seem like real motorcycles now instead of adult versions of kids electric toys sold at Toys R Us.

    Back to the Hooligan. By the time I was done checking out the Zero's my Hooligan was ready for a test ride. It had exactly 1 mile on the clock and they said only the mechanic road it around the dealer a few times. Tires were still very new. It started right up thanks to the fuel injection. First thing I noticed was how throaty the exhaust was. In fact I would say its a hair loud for a stock exhaust. Makes me wonder if it passes the EPA noise limits. My guess is it probably does its just set for a lower tone then most stock exhaust out there. I found the engine to idle fairly smoothly. Its by no means the model of smoothness but it does not shake dental fillings like a lot of scooters do.

    Being brand spanking new its obvious everything in the drive line is smooth and not yet broken in. So acceleration was not very brisk and it took a lot of revs to get it going off the line. Once moving it did just fine. After about 2 miles on the test ride I could already tell the transmission bits were wearing in better.

    Ride quality seems pretty good. Its not silky Vespa or soft Honda smooth but I did not notice anything annoying. Its certainly not harsh like the Super 8 is. I did notice some plastic rattle type sounds going over bumps but it was not obnoxious by any means and most other scooters do it as well if you listen. Once not listening for it I did not really notice the sound. It seems to take some pretty gnarly road imperfections without any sort of frame flexing so its safe to assume the frame is sturdy.

    Handling I could not really put it through its paces because the tires are still brand new. It seems the suspension is well setup though so I suspect once the tires are broken in it will handle as good as most other scooters.

    Brakes are not yet fully seated but so far they seem to work great. Its very obvious you have plenty of stopping power. They feel a lot like the brakes on the SportCity 250 but take more effort to squeeze is all. Its possible as they break in the braking effort will improve.

    The fastest I went during the test ride was about 45 MPH indicated. The scooter did not seem to show any sign of stress at that speed. I would imagine it will pull right up to its maximum speed and run at that speed all day long. The real limitation is likely gearing then power.

    When I arrived back at the dealership I hesitated for a few seconds but then decided to take it. They know me so they did not try anything crazy but were not willing to discount the bike much. It is after all full riding season and this is a brand new model that is currently a bit rare. I bet not for long though.

    My OTD price was pretty close to $3300. I got $900 credit for my 09 Super 8 on trade witch was exactly what I paid for it back in November. I tried to nickle and dime them but it was pretty much take it or leave it. Odds are I can wait until the fall and save a few hundred but having the rest of the Summer to enjoy it is worth the small premium of getting it now.

    After negotiating and being at the dealer for 3 hours it was time to ride home and literally park it for the next week and half. Vacation starts tomorrow sadly but at least the new scooter will constantly be on my mind.

    The ride home was a short 7 or 8 miles. However in that time the engine continued to loosen up and the transmission was getting more responsive. I really think it will be a pretty solid runner once fully broken in.
  15. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    926
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
    Congrats !
    I thought I was quick on the trigger. Hope it's all you want it to be.

    Be Big,
    AMAC
  16. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Only thing that sucks is I literally road it home and placed it in the garage and spent no more time with it. Reason is I am starting my vacation later today. I will be back on it the 22nd and hopefully full time.

    Spent a bit of time researching PGO scooters. Wow they make a lot of funky stuff but are considered very high quality. Piaggio helped them out back in the day. I guess that is why they use a similar (if not the same) oil filter as the Piaggio products do. The styling also seems a bit different as well compared to many other Asian scooters. Almost a hint of Italian in many of the designs even though the deal wit Piaggio expired 30 years ago.
  17. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Finely after a week and half on vacation things are slowly returning to normal. Just have to entertain my friend for another half day then its off to the airport.

    First thing I will be doing when I get back home is jumping the Hooligan so I can go to work. Its been a painful time waiting for the opportunity to ride!

    Kind of a funny and crazy thing happened literally the day I was leaving. My Grom showed up and the owner apparently had a list of potential buyers and no patients. So it was buy it that morning or wait for the next batch. I told them can we do this deal in 3 hours? I did most of the negotiating over the phone and then road my Agility 125 over for trade and sign the paperwork. Since I was on the run I had them deliver it. It showed up about an 2 hours before heading to the airport.

    The deal with the Grom was about as expected. They did not want to budge on price and started with exaggerated fees but I quickly terminated that. All I had to mention is "Honda says $125" on its website and it quickly went to that. They also gave generously on my trade. Agility 125's are worth peanuts especially on wholesale but I squeezed $1300 out of them. Out the door for the Grom was $2,800. Before the trade credit it was $4,100.

    I have not even touched the Grom yet. Tonight its Hooligan and tomorrow will the Grom.

    The day I was signing paper work I asked about an ETA for the 2015 PCX150? It was not on the last order form surprisingly so it now seems a little unlikely it will be showing up in July but sometimes they still can. The owner thought August was a little more likely at this point. I don't really care at this point and the extra month will give me time to break in the Hooligan and the Grom.

    The PCX is the last piece of the puzzle and I will hang low for the foreseeable future and focus on other things.
  18. Chillis

    Chillis Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,567
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    Longhaul, have you ever broken in a bike? :D

    Looking forward to the Hooligan report.
  19. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    790
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Oh yeah I have broken in plenty. I usually end up keeping a bike around for a long time but I did have a few scooters recently that I parted with. Some of them regretfully.

    Anyways road the Hooligan into work. I really like the size of the 170cc engine. Its small enough to be light and nimble but seems large enough to really get around. It does not feel PCX fast (yet) but the engine seems a lot less busy in normal riding. Hills seem to be a non issue with this scooter in normal riding situations so far.

    The engine also seems to be loosening up nicely. Compared to how it was on the test ride it seems to be a lot looser now. I expect this improvement to continue for at least the first few hundred miles. It just might beat the PCX once broken in but only time will tell.

    Also the stock exhaust sounds incredibly throaty. Really a nice sounding stock exhaust system. Seems a bit loud but it does meet current EPA regulations so they say.

    Still breaking in the tires. Before riding it into work I decided to check the tires. According to 2 gauges and the gauge on my air compressor the tires were set at 20 PSI. According to the manual and the tire info on the bike the recommended pressure is 30 PSI. I would really like to know why dealers never seem to put the proper amount of air in the tires? Seems every bike I buy has underinflated tires. I set them for 32 PSI front and rear and will give that a try.

    Suspension is a bit firm but I find it very compliant over bumps and road imperfections. Its hard to push it until the tires get more broken in but so far they are much improved from the first ride. Tires are Maxxis and I believe these are a fairly good quality tire.

    The speedometer seems a bit off. I passed by one of those trailer radar things on the side of the road. At an indicated 38 MPH it says I was going 31 MPH. It is set on MPH or least the dash says so.

    Also have 34 miles on the clock now and the gas gauge has not moved yet. This is fairly scooter typical but its nice to see the dealer at least topped it off. It will probably start to drop at the 40 to 60 mile mark then go fast after that.

    Oh the brakes....They are seating in nicely and it stops really well with lots of good feel. I think Genuine spent some money on the brake hardware and maybe the suspension is a step above as well.

    I noticed no discomfort with the seat. It actually feels very comfortable and seem to have any pressure points so far.

    Tomorrow I will try and get a few pictures. Maybe a few next to the Grom and then a few next to the Burgman 400 for the sense of scale. It larger then a Zuma 125 but its not exactly a huge scooter by any means. Really just a typical 150 - 200cc sized scoot.
  20. quasigentrified

    quasigentrified Trumpet Strumpet

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    if you were riding around lake sammammish, those radar speed indicators read at least 5 mph too low.