GI's and motorcycle crashes...

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by dolomoto, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. lemieuxmc

    lemieuxmc Banned

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    Three Marines killed last night at 02:00 in a car wreck in San Clemente, alcohol and excessive speed are believed to be the cause.
  2. MotoErik

    MotoErik like a kid in a candyshop

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    What a shame...

    Is the chain of command talking about mandatory remedial car training?
  3. MotoErik

    MotoErik like a kid in a candyshop

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    The Green Knights have 100 chapters worldwide these days ( I helped form chapter 22). Riders taking care of riders seems to be the best solution to the difficult problem. I'm pretty glad I retired don't have to deal with this crap anymore though...
  4. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer

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    Already required.........at least it was by the Navy when I was still on active duty. All drivers under a certain age had to take a safe driving class.

    Those who have never been in the service would probably be amazed at the amount of time spent on safety training as well as training on alcohol/drug abuse, sexual harassment, equal rights, etc.
  5. deacon51

    deacon51 Been here awhile

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    With the three day weekend this weekend all the Active Duty Army guys have to have a safety inspection of there car done this week. The other services have been laughing at them all week. (I work at a Joint Service Command)
  6. TCSVN

    TCSVN ...Stays in Vegas...

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    Must be a local issue. The CG at The Great Place hasn't passed that FRAGO yet. And, combined with a Training Holiday for a 4-day weekend to boot. :freaky
  7. Stoic96

    Stoic96 Adventurer

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    Ten-year Army Infantry guy here. This has all been said already, but it's the truth. As with so many other things in the military (DUIs, suicide), it's not the services' fault that these things are happening, it's just the nature of the demographics they work with. A bunch of 18-year old kids, first time away from home and first time having real income-of course they're going to get drunk and go do stupid, dangerous things. Especially when you get three or more of them together. It's unfortunate, but short of chaining them to a wall, there's nothing you can do other than try to make sure they are well-informed and try to influence them to do the right thing.

    The other unfortunate part of this whole train wreck is what the chain of command inevitably resorts to in an effort to prevent these accidents. They--we--are just institutionally unable to accept that there are some things that cannot be controlled. Again, you see the same pattern of behavior across the entire spectrum of things the military does. This is where the overly-restrictive regulations and suggestions about banning motorcycles entirely come from.

    Despite some asserting that "the military ownz u, and ud better except it", the military cannot realistically control what servicemen do off-duty, without requiring everyone stay in the barracks, which they cannot and will not do. I can tell you for a fact that any order banning servicemembers from riding would be almost universally ignored--by soldiers, NCOs, and officers--just not on post.

    In my opinion, the services are doing a pretty good job with their adoption of MSF training and gear requirements. That's about all you can do, again, without chaining people to walls.

    Oh, and I've seen the German training classes first-hand. Very long, very expensive. But then--if they're so much better than MSF, why is the end result on the road the same? :puke1

    Also, on a sidenote, there was a rider killed here at Ft. Benning just a week or so ago. Coming to work, I drove by while the bike was still lying in the road. Was it a young private, out hot-rodding his GSX-R? Nope, it was a Department of the Army civilian, in his 50s, on a Gold Wing. A young girl in a car pulled out in front of him while texting.
  8. Forde

    Forde Been here awhile

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    the german army showed all their personnel this

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/khnMiJPInio" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  9. Megamoto

    Megamoto Yes, I do look like this.

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    You know...I think I've been here before.
    I'm a health and safety officer with the UK MoD. I spent 26 years in the RAF as an air traffic controller. I have 6 bikes. I funded for my own RoSPA diploma. http://www.rospa.com/drivertraining...onal-diploma-advanced-riding-instruction.aspx
    I have been an IAM observer for nearly 10 years. I was the chief instructor for the tri-service motorcycle training when stationed out at Akrotiri.

    Ohh..... hark at me.........anyway.

    The 'powers that be' over here have made comment that the MoD seems to be loosing a number of troops due to motorcycle accidents. With my experience and contacts I negotiated free BikeSafe courses for MoD (RAF, Army, Navy and civilians). http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/ I've also attended and arranged FBoS courses. http://www.firstaid-training.com/firstbikeonscene.asp I have even squared away a 30% discount for MoD staff on the IAM 'skills for life' course. http://www.iam.org.uk/motorcyclist I've also offered slow riding mentoring. To give the troops the greatest flexibility I have volunteered all of these things outside of the normal working day. (Can't do it in works time..... everyone is 'too' busy - cutbacks)

    Safety isn't sexy.

    Over here advanced riding has the image of an adenoidal, pipe smoking, sam browne wearing bmw rider.

    Shame really.

    Even with all the above handed to the troops 'on a plate' the take-up has been slow. BikeSafe seems to have gone down well, the local plod have been fantastic, it's also broken down some barriers and everyone who has attended has enjoyed themselves.

    Any ideas on how to get a better take-up?

    I don't talk through my nose, don't smoke a pipe, I do have a hi-vis winter vest but not a bmw.

    If ony their 'airships' (RAF top brass) would allow the troops to offset the cost of the training with the annual education allowance.....................
  10. vecchio Lupo

    vecchio Lupo Diplomatico Di Moto

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    Bravo, Megamoto. I will continue to do what i can in the smallest of ways, and that is try and break the barriers between young and old riders. I have had on occaision reminded the gray hair, Electro-Glide, stressed Black Leather jacket old guys that the kid on the R6 is exactly like we were. They balk until I remind them that my Norton Commando with 60 advertised HP was a Super Bike, and their KZ900 was the most brutish thing on two wheels at the time. Our attitudes and likes have not changed, just the hardware, and it is harder for the new guys because the new bikes arwe razor sharp with less room for error than we had. None of my peers started out on a R1200RT or a H-D Big Twin, we forget that at one time we all wanted to be "Mike the Bike". That is usually enough common ground to close the gap between Barry Sheene and Lorenzo.

    When I talk about Mert Lawill, and Renzo Pasolini, some E-4 with a CBR will chime in with one of his heroes and we are on a level field and able to discuss pulling one over on the man by not getting killed being stupid.
  11. lemieuxmc

    lemieuxmc Banned

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    "the kid on the R-6 is exactly like we were"

    Sort of, but the difference back then was that you usually spent a year or three buzzing around everywhere on a slow, cheap, dirt bike until you moved up to a CB 350 or an RD 350 that went from 0-100 in what... 20 seconds?

    These kids now are getting on street bikes with almost NO riding experience and a 600 or 1000 sport-bike that goes 0-100 in what... 4 seconds?

    Or a big cruiser that has so much mass and inertia, that when coupled with minimal lean angles before grinding hard parts, even a good rider can get into a bind on sharp curves or when something unexpected happens?

    There has been some studying that the rate of acceleration is so strong on the crotch rockets that some guys crash because they CAN'T get off the throttle. Think of a flag streaming in the wind for a visual. :ear
  12. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    Ugh.

    Ban cars!

    :D

    On a serious note: it sucks no matter how you slice it.

    M
  13. vecchio Lupo

    vecchio Lupo Diplomatico Di Moto

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    lemieuxmc,

    That is a common theme sung by myself and many. I started on a 3hp mini bike and then a Honda 70, a 125 then a big Suziki Titan 500 before really being in big bikes. I made plenty of bone head moves on less than 20 hp. The market today makes a step up tier system of motorcycling very difficult if not impossible. New bikes with new riders and Ultra high performance is a bad equation.

    All we can do is try and break through to the "Not going to be me" knuckleheads and keep the Brass from over reacting and putting stupid restrictions on us all.

    All the above being true, I believe that the DoD is working towards legislating motorcycles off base. That makes me mad, yes there are a 100 ways for a troop to injure or kill himself, bikes are very "In your face" about it. Our Grand Fathers walked from Normandy to Berlin with a bottle of cognac in the rucksack and an M1 garand on his shoulder, and it was cool. Big Boy rules applied, if you were drunk on duty, they crucified you. Nowadays, the DoD says we are the smartest, most advanced force in the history of the world, yet we are not capable of making the simplest of choices. Hell
    , 400 years ago, every Roman Legionaire knew that if he showed up with a head full of wine, he would get flayed.
  14. RFVC600R

    RFVC600R GOT SAND? NO!

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    I'm not saying ban motorcycles. and beleive me, they do it in cars too
  15. rickrwh

    rickrwh Been here awhile

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    Is it fun? If you make it fun and let people know that it is, maybe that would help.

    I think the biggest hindrance is getting people to not think of it as "safety training" but more as something fun to do that might improve their skills as a side benefit.
  16. TCSVN

    TCSVN ...Stays in Vegas...

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    KILLEEN (February 21, 2012)—A (31 yr old) soldier died early Tuesday morning after the motorcycle he was riding hit a car with so much force the car overturned.

    Killeen police spokeswoman Carroll Smith said the incident began minutes before 1 a.m. when a patrol officer attempted to stop three motorcycles, two of which were racing along Stan Schlueter Loop near Trimmier Rd.

    Full story here
  17. dwoodward

    dwoodward Long timer

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    Video shows a former sportbike with extended swingarm and over-width back tire.

    Ugh.
  18. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    It's got a lot to do with the culture, military standards, risk taking-

    "I said JUMP!"

    "How high, sir?"

    T. E. Lawrence was in danger during many episodes of his service in the Near East, but died at the age of 46 after a motorcycle accident.
  19. dolomoto

    dolomoto Destroyer of Motorcycles

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    Last week, I ran across a well-intentioned but misinformed MP who showed a staggering lack of common sense (or, is it "uncommon" sense?).

    I rode up to the gate in my well worn 'stich.

    [​IMG]

    One MP turned to the other and asked his opinion on my suit. :norton

    They debated whether it was "safe" since it was "worn out". Now, the base reg just changed..it now dictates a magical reflective vest when wearing ACU's and a "highly visible" vest or jacket during the day, and the ole ambiguously vague "reflective vest or jacket" at night.

    It was right about daybreak. Anyway, they told me they'd let me thru that one time, but next time I had to wear a magic vest over my 'stich. :huh

    I explained that although my suit is broken in, the reflective qualities (on the rear, front, down the sides, in addition to the blinking lights on my GMax G68 helmet) are not diminished.

    <object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e4wd7cFM2Ls?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e4wd7cFM2Ls?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

    Yeah, you guessed it. It was like trying to explain Buddhism to a pair of goldfish.

    In their minds, I would be better off with a LS cotton Tshirt, jeans, high-top sneakers, half helmet and golf gloves...but as long as I had on my magic vest...I'd be alright.

    :deal
  20. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Likely Lost.

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    If it makes you feel any better I got pulled over on Pearl Harbor wearing a BRIGHT RED one piece (whitout the magic vest). I also got stopped one morning for not dimming my headlight approaching the gate.

    The guy just couldn't understand that the light doesn't turn off if the key is on. :lol3