Golem ReBirth... or I may suck as a welder

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Ricardo Kuhn, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

    Joined:
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    But I'm pretty good with the grinder...

    I have dreams for years and years of making a more dirt capable version of the GS, I try first with Golem a bastard little frankenbike base on the R11S chassis

    [​IMG]

    She was fast and very powerful but everything hapend at the top-end with out much torque, making the bike very dificult to ride in the dirt.

    Actually that was not even the real problem, the main issue was the lack of suspension front and rear and more than that the lack of Quality of the suspension travel.

    Golem dye a Inhuman death do to over-heating so now is time to bring her spirit back alife.

    This days I have a great advantage .
    A Work space (:wave Rick) were for the first Golem everything was made and install in the street in front of my building..

    Anyway I don't have any serius tools(2 handdrills, 2 4,5" grinders, 1 sawsaw, a dremel useless for this kind of task, a few hammers, a headgun and that is kind of it) everything is portable (stuff I can keep at my small apartment) I got a small MIG welder on loan too and as ussual I when to town with it, well i'm going to town little by little.

    Here is somehow the basic outline of the frame.
    [​IMG]

    In my opinion, I beleive to have a proper working suspension the two end of the bike need to work at unison or at least with similar travel and progression carecteristics, so making just a front end conversion was out of the question, besides that will be much to easy and not much fun.

    This is one of my early concept drawing made about 2 years ago after seeing Bert Dusma work in the Flesh (the Frame Motozila base his work on) and realize how weak and uncontected will be to the rest of the bike
    [​IMG]

    Basically I don't want Golem that look and perform like this.
    [​IMG]

    kind of like a Hardtail "harley" from west coast choppers.

    NO, No, no i want a suspension design that give me similar travel carecterristic and at least something more equal in terms of travel, Not 11' in the front and 7" in the back..

    Here is when the design problem becomes really fun, If you use a similar concept to the GS ( almost vertical, Linkless rear end) you will need a shock that is far longer ovisully increasing the overall height of the whole machine,(stand over height) not to mension a few compromises with the rear suspension travel (very linear, bottoming out kind of easy)

    So for that I explore a few routes.

    This one was my dream sistem for years until i realize :doh that the tyre will occupied the same space as the shock at full compression (same with a Under the seat pipe were you need a much taller tail to fit everything) so No go.
    [​IMG]

    I even explore a lawill inspire design a few weeks ago, but I was unable to make something that provide suficient rigidity with out a extreme amount of material and human efford
    [​IMG]

    So I keep evolving the concept of the shock location longitudinal to the top of the engine.

    So far in a very primitive stage the linkage looks like this.
    [​IMG]

    kind of funny I was aware the GS chassis were somehow assimetrical, but i guess I never realize how much, the blue tape represents the center line of the engine (Input shaft to the tranny) and is only 4 1/4" inches from the left side of the swingarm, when the swigarm is actually 11' 3/16" inches wide
    [​IMG]

    In my current stage of development (what I discover so far) the two linkages for the shock are side by side separeted by about 2 1/4" on center that way I will gain as much space as possible (running the shock as close to the left as possible) on the upper part of the frame for the battery and fuses (ovisully no ABS on this Puppy) and then the lower linkage comes out on center with the swingarm shock mount.
    [​IMG]

    Since i have no idea what I'm doing (i'm just guestimating) everything I'm making will have a really wide range of adjustents, for example the two silver rectangles that for now hold the shock and the strut (S aluminum shapes for now until i make the proper piece) will be mounted on a multi hole hub (12 diferent possitions) and will used a adjument screw (from a Gokart) to move outwards serving as a way to make the linkage longer (sorry my Ingles sucks at this level of complexity even more) in short this two arms can be as short as 2 inches (on center) or as long as 5" fully open, all adjustable by hand with out any tools (I hope at least)
    [​IMG]

    Here are some basic details of the mounting points as ussual ussing Bicycle parts in this case BMX style slidding footpegs, made of seamless high tensil steel (more than strong for my needs)
    [​IMG]

    Actually this mounting sistem is proving to be the most complicate, at first i attache the peg mounts to the center stand hole, but is being evolve in the last few days in my head, and hopefully soon i will have a more efficient solution.
    [​IMG]

    Oviuslly I'm really far away from completing this project, in fact I don't even know if will prove to be feasible, but be sure I'm going to try to give him my best..

    Here are some basic sketches ussing paper copies of the current frame to try to improve and optimize the most logical location of all the diferent members.

    For example four tubes going into the lower gusset on the head stock, from the two diferent mounting pointsand somehow side by side.
    [​IMG]

    bend tubes (bicycle forks) with the two lower tubes on top of the other in pairs,, I'm sure very strong with also some good clearance for the bottom triple clamp.
    [​IMG]

    For Now enjoy a small taste of my challenges and be sure I will keep you posted on the progress as slow as maybe (since sometimes I just don't have the proper tools, materials or the skills to achive certain task) so i need to figure out backup ways to achive the goals.
    #1
  2. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    RK, You, as always, impress the hell out of me with your willingness to dare to be different!

    I look forward to the outcome of this project!

    :lurk

    Jim :brow
    #2
  3. GB

    GB . Administrator

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    Ricky,

    You're a real genius!! I like the way you think "outside the box", as they say..

    but tell me this, if you're going to use the same engine from the golem bike, aren't you going to have the same problem of no low end torque? :ear

    Are you going to get yourself a GS engine for this baby?

    It looks very interesting :thumb

    :lurk
    #3
  4. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

    Joined:
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    Not just different! Jim I want to be Better.

    well be sure I be posting when I make some progress (I be working at the shop for the next 3 days)
    #4
  5. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

    Joined:
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    Is not outside the Box since I have no Box, is just what make sense in my head.
    Actually the issues with the S Platform have more to do with the small flywheel mass, the super tall tranny gears and then some to do with the high flow valves, cams and exaust pipe that move the power band up high (less bottom end) but with far more power to compensate.
    Hopefully i'm going to have two engine choices.

    I some how stock R11GS engine with a massive (3 times the size as stock) airbox (Force feed intake, really high next to the steering column)
    and a somehow open single pipe, to improve a little on power but with out lossing much bottom end.

    And then (if I can finally fix it) a Total fire breather R11S engine with a fancy chip and big old header pipes, but connected to a Cut down (chop down with out the swingarm mounts) R1150 ADVenture tranny (low first gear) and a heavier flywheel to keep the RPms a little more constant, plus in my dreams a really low gear final drive from a R850R (seven % lower than a R11GS final drive. and about 12 % lower than a stock 1150GS FD) but so far no money to buy one.

    Sure Is going to take some time to finish this project and Happylly and finally I'm okay with not being so impacient and a overachiver (My downfall before)
    #5
  6. Anorak

    Anorak Woolf Barnato

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    How about an R1200C flywheel? Those things are massive.
    #6
  7. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    as ussual Amigo you read my Mind, i just need to get my hands on the spects for now and figure out if is not a little to much..

    I hope the one from a 1150Gs will be suficient (much heavier that the R11S) but not as big as the one from the R11GS(since the 1150 is compatible with the ADVenture tranny but the 11Gs is not) anyway I always need to take in consideration the size (diameter) of the clutches is diferent, no to mension the configurations (size and diameter of the splines) axle vary from R11 to the R1150 trannys.

    so many thing to think about (ake it really interesting for sure) i can only deal with some of them at each time. Is not like just installing a new telescopic compatible front end that is for sure, that becomes pretty much a bolt on deal (if design propertlly) but i still need to see one that will take the pounding with out being a complete (close loop) frame structure,
    #7
  8. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    I forgot to mension one thing..

    I tilt the motor backward by seven deggres (my favorite number, plus in the same fashion of the modified Monolever Airheads) as you can see here.
    [​IMG]

    mostlly in hope of getting a better drive line for the final drive. swingarm and shaft drive (so it does not elongate and compress as much on the rear U-joing) since I hope to achive at least 10 inches of rear travel.

    Oviuslly the engine will need to be higher for pure ground clearance considerations.


    well two things.

    If any of you with more experience see that i'm doing something terribly wrong, please tell me (i' humble that way) for me this is a whole new realm of mecanical work i have never done (except for a few bicycle frames and small linkages on my downhil bicycles) so safe me from my misery if you see i'm fucking up somehow, but also remenber this is a experimental platform and I just don't want to go for the "Good enogh for goverment work" Route, I really want to see how far i can take this thing in every way possible.
    #8
  9. boyscout

    boyscout sittin' down

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    Well the first thing I see wrong is that front disk. There is no way in hell it will stop that thing. :D

    -bs
    #9
  10. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    Good one, but is really fancy 300MM Floating rotor...
    maybe it will stop it if i used my fingers to hold it really tight..

    So far i don't have a proper fork to put on, actually I don't even have a proper headtube so the bicycle fork is just for makeup porpuses (as many other parts).
    #10
  11. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

    Joined:
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    Today I finally I took the time to learn how to use the "Crop" feature on smugmug (so freaking easy, as ussual)

    So now i have some nice details of the shock linkage, just remenber is just a mokeup but i think still show the concept pretty well.

    The two arms act on compression to achive rotational movement but the angle adjusters run only on tension hopefully making the light but also very reliable and for sure very adjustable.
    [​IMG]

    so far I'm running the set up ussing go-kart hubs parts but I plan to make a proper piece when i have acess to a lathe.

    will run on the same size bearigs as the A-arm does (2 on each outside support and 3 on the rotating mount for the Links) actually i will use a A-arm axle and hopefully i will not experince any flexion or permanent deformation of the axle or frame
    [​IMG]

    As you can see on the right side of the Frame (lower right hand side of the foto) the outer pivot will be constructed of A-arm pivot
    mounts (from a bend A-arm) and will carry two bearings each to increase axle sopport
    [​IMG]

    Here you can see the adjusters (at the bottom of the linkage with a little round knob) that will act on tension, the ones I currentlly have are 12.9 grade but only 6MM so i think I need something at least 8MM or a back-up sistem in case one of them give up after a jump or something.
    [​IMG]
    #11
  12. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    I do need to confess sometimes I feel like a Alien around here.

    What happend to members with forward, wide angle vision..??

    looks to me like ADVrider is becoming more and more a place for entusiastic farckers (what you spell that silly word) Crome and carbon fibre fetish collectors ( that need to take the bike to the shop to install all the accesories they purchase) than people that actually make things on their own and also can apreciate a design even if is not shinny and beautyfully painted.


    I guess I don't really care, since I'm making this project for my own self, but I do feel kind of sad not to see more Interest in something that is at least Inovative, challenging not to mension kind of fun to see progress..


    Ricky
    #12
  13. Garthe

    Garthe ROCKS ARE YOUR FRIENDS...

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    Richard, WE have never met, however I had to respond. As motorcyclist we ALL feel like Aliens to the "normal" world ( if you want to test this theory just tell one of our coworkers about one of your "journeys" off-road, they just look at you with this tilted dog head response and say "that's nice").

    What happened to a society with forward, wide angle vision...??

    Most of us live in a very compressed world. 50 plus work weeks, children, family expectations and the list goes on. All people live through someone, no matter how successful we are. Their is always someone to look up to, for someone is always doing something that WE wish we could DO. Is it so bad that you have been chosen to do your work ?? Don't we all benefit from each others work in this world ?

    You have a crowd BIGGER than you think. Keep on working, your doing just fine. Jim

    :clap :clap :clap
    #13
  14. Santa

    Santa Focused on the Future

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    Agreed.
    Not too many people with the vision anymore.
    You still have a long way to go on this but...
    I'm confident that things will work out just fine in the end.
    Like they always do.
    See you around.
    Santa
    #14
  15. sixer

    sixer I suffer from Ainrofilac

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    I'm still new here but I've come to realize there are some awesome engineer's and very creative people on this site. Keep up the good work. I especially like your out of the box, no box to begin with, works of art. I'm looking forward to have the chance to follow along while you build this.




    ok i'm a liar, i'm here for the pictures
    #15
  16. spagthorpe

    spagthorpe Long timer

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    Ricky, trust me. I facinated by this, and very interested in how it turns out. I have a number of motorcycle chassis engineering books, and I'm always looking at new ways to do things. My problem is I have no room for any project at all (and unfortunately work too much for other people, and have no time for personal projects anyway). I'm not very vocal because I have little to add now.

    If you're interested though, I subscribe to a GREAT motorcycle chassis design mailing list. The people on it are amazing, some of them notable bike builders, and the level of knowledge is mind blowing. Lots of people working on custom bikes, funny front ends, feet first style bikes, etc.

    Go here:

    http://micapeak.com/lists/

    About half way down is MC-CHASSIS-DESIGN, and pop in your email and let it go. About 50-emails/day, or you can subscribe to a single digest version. Lots of archives available too, as well as photos of a lot of interesting bike modifications. Seriously, you would really fit in there.

    Guy that runs that list is in the Bay area as well. He would probably love to check out what you're working on. He does crazy stuff like hydroforming megaphone exhaust pipes. Check out his site: http://www.eurospares.com/other.htm
    #16
  17. Wannabex2

    Wannabex2 nineof6

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    Projects like yours are very interesting to watch. You are charting territory that many people have no experience in, so it's hard to comment on this other than to say this is a cool project and keep posting.

    Creative people should feel like an Alien. If you were normal you wouldn't be doing what you are doing! Just don't look like an Alien.
    #17
  18. GB

    GB . Administrator

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    That big rear shock takes up the rider's seat space!! Do you plan to grow your legs another foot or two to reach the ground? :lol3

    Seriously, aren't you going to be too high to reach the ground?
    #18
  19. Tobers

    Tobers Been here awhile

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    Rick - not sure you'll have much travel on that shock. There only seems to be 2 or 3 inches movement available on the actuator arm that pushes the shock piston due to the length of the arm and the angle that it can move through.

    How about putting an Aprilia RSV or Ducati 999 engine in a GS? Stick it in sideways like a moto-guzzi :D

    That would be interesting!
    #19
  20. Beez

    Beez Given to fly

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    Well, said. This is a fascinating build Riccardo and I wish you great success. However this level of engineering is above most of us, all we can say is WOW! Who knows you could become the John Britton of the GS world.
    #20