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Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by Sniper X, Dec 22, 2008.
When you purchase you steel, do you get the Material Test Report (MTR) for what you recieve?
I have the same CRKT knife. Use it everyday, no complaints from me.
Cost to the end consumer has nothing to do with it - it's all about how the mill did the run, and whether the supplier had anything to do with it as well.
One thing people don't realize is that an awful lot of steel comes from recycled material, so your dad's Buick is in that billet as well, and while most of the really rotten stuff burns off, I've seen streaks of copper in a bar of steel before.
If they blend all the ingredients as they're supposed to, according to the recipe, they can call it by the spec's name. I'm sure there are tolerances for chemistry - so it's not "exactly" 0.95% carbon by weight, it's more like 0.86-1.02% as an acceptable range. Chemistry notwithstanding, the cooling rates from liquid to billet, the rate at which carbon was reduced, the manner in which alloying elements were introduced, and the process by which the steel was reduced to the form you get it can all play important roles in the character of the steel you end up with. It's actually a whole lot like baking, really. 2 chefs with the exact same ingredients, following the same recipe, but sourced from different stores and using their own techniques, will make two very different muffins.
Sure cost has a lot to do with it. The same grade could be made with different melt practices. Steel made from the Vac Arc Remelt ( VAR ) method would cost about three times what standard air melt steel cost. Also VAR is not readily available and is not made in a wide variety of grades, unless you want to buy an entire heat of steel. A full heat of VAR is around 30K pounds. But you can have it your way! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
If you are calling me a fool, you missed the part I wrote " This temperature is dependent upon the actual chemistry of the material. "
Why don't you use tool steel flats? The quality is very good and chemistry is consistant. For what a custom knife maker charges for a knife the additional cost of tool steel would not be noticed. O-1 or O-2?
On thing to know about the variability in the chemistry of steel is a steel manfacturing difficulity know as segragation. As the cast ingot cools the alloy elements group together in different parts of the ingot. When the ingort is rolled into , flats for example and in knife sizes there will be alot of feet of flat, there will be considerable varance in chemistry from the flats at the begianing of the rolling to the middle and at the end of the rolling.
are you here for the ten minute argument or the full half hour?
Are you Presiding High Council?
I'm just here to provide comment and info Your Honor.
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I wasn't calling anyone out in particular, so please don't take offense where none was intended.
My knife steels of choice are primarily 1095, 1084, W1 and W2, occasionally O1, and sometimes some 15n20. I have also used 52100, 5160, I have a hunk of O6 for tool making, and some A2 I have yet to decide what to do with. for my historical work I end up making my own steels, either from carburized wrought iron, or smelted material direct from ore in most cases. I'm experimenting with recycling material into an orishigane-type product using an Aristotle furnace, and also have played around with high-nickel iron meteorite (campo).
My personal experience with variable product under a single spec is 1095. The stuff I get from Admiral steel is not annealed, and has massive alloy banding present in almost every purchase. I have changed suppliers to Aldo Bruno (the New Jersey Steel Baron) and his material is clean, well-annealed, and is ready to work, with no additional thermal cycling needed before it's "ready" for knife making. Even then, I know people who got a batch from him, and found inclusions, banding, or other flaws, and the product was replaced immediately - so his customer service carries some weight, but my main decision to use him comes from the nature of the steel as delivered, which is excellent for my purposes and techniques. I don't pretend to know about everything that goes on in a steel mill, but I know the end product can be rather varied depending on the quality controls in place, and the method by which the final bars are made.
No you aren't...
Oh cool...knife fight.
I say the same, no offense intended.
When I read you post it seemed you were having a bad day with your supplier. Bear in mind you are buying a very plain, low end product, 1095. Steel is a very difficult thing to make. Even the best made steel can fail. If you were buying a mills top of the line product, or the majority of its capicity, you may get a better product and more attention when a bad lot is found.
Steel mills also hold all Aces. As a manufacturer you have no choice but to buy what they make, good or bad. Although there are mountian high piles of specifications most count on in house QA to keep good raw material in their products and simply get creidt less scrap value from the mills for the rejects.
I guess you use 1095 for its vintage authentic quality? It is of interest to me you make your own steels.
I have made some knifes and posted photos here but my strong suit is heat treatment. I hope to be of some assistance to you sometime.
On what basis do you make that statement?
I actually believe you're not trying to be a prick.
You just really are one.
I do not equate "plain" with "low end". I prefer simple steels, because they are easy for a hobby smith to do a quality heat-treatment with. I prefer 1095 because if I want, I can use clay to get a really nice hamon. 1075 is also a good choice if you want to be on the other side of the eutectic line... but I also want the additional carbon for maximum hardness. There are a lot of high-quality production knives being made with 1095, and while it's not in the same class as some of the modern super-steels, it's much more forgiving and approachable with minimal equipment.
I have an interest in working in some of those "super steels" -- I have a friend who's tight in the restaurant scene locally, and we've been talking about high-end, bespoke kitchen knives -- and am filled with dread over the heat treatment.
I was relieved to find a vendor that accepts "onesy-twosey" HT work from individuals -- presumably, they take it and hold it until they have a full batch, then fill their oven.
They also do cryo, which superficially sounded like hokum, but after a bit of research, does seem to add some desirable qualities.
Oh, and I really like working with A2, the HT doesn't intimidate me at all, and I love the edge it holds. But it rusts.
Leatherman 33 Crater.
Made in the USA, excellent quality with a very sharp edge. Use it at work all the time. Can't believe Mountain Equipment Co-op sells them for $15. :huh
If you ever need any information on heat treatment, contact me.
See our web site: http://www.specialtyheattreat.com/
Nice. The blade is the exact shape I like for daily use.
... and the carabiner acts as a beer bottle opener