Got bit by the bug, want to build my own hack.

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by dorkpunch, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    So I've been tinkering with the idea of getting a sidecar rig to do grocery / kid duty and icy roads in the winter. Course, can't afford anything but I have a decent pile of metal / scrap parts and an ultimate set of tools... :lol3

    Not that I need another project, and not that this project will go anywhere but I finally decided I wasn't going to find a suitable bike for the sidecar to go on in my price range, so why not attach it to one I've already got?!

    Current plan is to use my '75 XL350. I know, small and underpowered. It's not likely to go more than 7 miles to school and back, and as long as it can hold 55 mph I'll be happy.

    Spent the last couple of days doodling and perusing the hack picture thread. Here's what I've come up with so far.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I plan on using either an XL or an old CR elsinore swingarm, wheel, and shock. My biggest concerns at this point are the swingarm attachment and the rail style car attachment. Is one rail like this considered pretty solid? Seems like even if the clamps are tight, over time the sidecar would sag or spin in the clamps. Maybe a double rail like this would be better?

    [​IMG]

    My concern with the swingarm is this - do I need some vertical support like I put on the shock to prevent the frame from twisting? Do I even need the triangle on the shock, or would a single upright be sufficient?

    Just for fun, a pic of it next to a bike...

    [​IMG]

    So these are just real quick off the cuff drawings. No measurements yet, and no idea what I'm doing but I kinda like it like that. :norton My thoughts are to get a decent design figured out and build a car like the one pictured. Get it mounted and test it out for a while, then if I like it I would build a body to go on top of it. Probably something along the lines of a Ural, but maybe a little more art-deco / vintagy and definitely aluminum.

    Open to all suggestions and comments!
    #1
  2. FR700

    FR700 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,512


    For what it's worth ...


    If an XL 350 can't pull 55 with a chair , take your hand/foot off the brake.


    The loading on the shock tower will go parallel to the swing arm and forward. Your brace as drawn is eating into tub space. I'd be inclined to run it parallel to the arm.


    Mono/twin tube ... the second tube is just adding unwanted weight and seeing as the connections are still clamped nothing much has changed as far as unwanted rotation.

    Spread the two center struts ( of the four as drawn ) as far apart as possible.




    ... or hit up RidingDonkeys to check out if the one near him is legit.

    http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22685668&postcount=1999

    [​IMG]



    Finish your F truck and get that Dodge going while we can still buy gasoline :lol3.

    The Impala rocks :thumb


    .
    #2
  3. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    :lol3

    Have to finish that handicapped bicycle trailer before I do ANYTHING... Thinking the Dodges are going to go bye bye, and fund the parts for the F150 and the '48 Dodge.

    Like I said, I don't need another project and this one will probably not happen anytime soon, I just like to plan ahead... I'll be retiring in 30 years you know. :deal
    #3
  4. FR700

    FR700 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,512
    I'd try to find a way to get your class involved in building the body for the sidecar :evil
    #4
  5. cleatusj

    cleatusj Dirt floor engineer

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,272
    Location:
    Granbury, TX
    DP, check out my dirt floor build link below for a simple frame that is strong.
    #5
  6. Nsfrt

    Nsfrt Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    41
    Location:
    Czech Rep; Europe
    Hello, would it be possible, to share with me the 3D model of the bike (Jawa 350)?

    Thank you a lot in advance. I will send you my email address in PM.
    #6
  7. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    I got it from the google warehouse (through sketchup). Just searched "sidecar" and it was one of maybe 5 results. For some reason the pic on warehouse is white though.
    #7
  8. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
  9. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    Hmmm.....

    [​IMG]

    Dug my XL out and did some figurin and measurin. Trying to decide on the best mounting spots. I do NOT want some sort of subframe. I think I can build the struts so that they either clamp around frame tubes or bolt on to existing parts of the bike. I'm kinda funny that way- I don't like to cut / weld the bike unless I absolutely have to, that way I can always put it back to stock.

    So far, I'm thinking one upper strut on the rear "upright" frame tube behind the air filter under the seat. The other upper strut would go around the front down tube just under the gas tank where that little rats nest of wires are.

    The front lower strut would attach to the front motor mount- you can just see it under the tach cable or inside the bend of the exhaust. The lower rear strut I'm struggling with. I have to leave enough room so I can still kick start the beast- no electric leg here. I'm thinking I could build a "custom" foot peg that was also the strut mount.

    [​IMG]

    Anyone else have any other ideas as far as mounting it to the bike?!

    Here is the type of swingarm I want to use. Mainly because I HAVE a spare, and it would (in my mind) be a fairly simple job to make some mounting brackets on the car and a shock tower. It's a lot longer than I thought it would be, but I think I can work with that.

    [​IMG]

    Been reading various hack build threads most of the day. Learnin all sortsa newfangled thing! :clap

    Anyone got any other ideas for me?!
    #9
  10. MILLENNIUM FALCON

    MILLENNIUM FALCON Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Oddometer:
    256
    Location:
    Central Pa
    Please don't take this as me trying to push my opinion on you. I hate it when people do that to me.. I just want to share my experience with you.....I had a similar idea last winter with my 400 dual sport build.......I really like the way it turned out but find myself barely riding because it is so under powered i have trouble not getting run over even on back roads. I really like my chair, but I will be bolting it up to more HP hopefully soon. I have no idea how your bike runs, or how heavy your chair is but I just wanted to tell you my story. My bike would run out pretty good as a solo bike. It could hold freeway speeds without a problem but with the chair 45 mph is making her work and if there is any kind of a grade i'm dropping 2 gears and losing a ton of speed by the time I get to the top. I know my chair is heavier than an enduro style outfit but I was very surprised by how much power the sidecar sucked from the little 400cc engine. This has been a great learning experience for me and I am looking forward to adding a lot more power to the mix. Take this as my 2cents. Good luck I know you will have fun and feel free to ask me or any other member questions. This forum has been a unbelievable help to me. I couldn't have built my rig without the advice and encouragement of others.

    [​IMG]

    I made the chassis as light as I could but the tub ads a lot of weight. I am thinking about making an enduro seat that bolts on. [​IMG]

    Here it is without the tub
    [​IMG]
    #10
  11. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    That is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for, thanks!!! I would love more ponies, but I just don't have the money to buy another bike. I'm thinking I'll use my tired old 350 as a test bed and see how it works. If I like it and want more juice, I can always adapt it to my 640 or my ST1100. :deal

    Any more pics of how you attached the car to the bike? (and the bike itself, all kinds of cool things going on there!)

    Played around a bit more with sketchup and here is a little more accurate representation of what I'm thinking... but its still just doodles.

    [​IMG]

    Not the right bike, but basically where I want to mount the struts...

    [​IMG]

    View from the back.

    [​IMG]

    The way I figure it, one of the lower struts would have a pivot that would allow for tow in adjustment, which would be adjusted by tightening / loosening the other 3 struts... lean out would be achieved by loosening all of the clamps on the tube of the car frame and tilting it there.

    Sound feasible?
    #11
  12. MILLENNIUM FALCON

    MILLENNIUM FALCON Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Oddometer:
    256
    Location:
    Central Pa
    Sure glad to help out..... your model looks very cool and highly adjustable. Much more fancy than what i did. Here are a few more pics and a link to the side car build..... the bike build is on here too. Its kinda a long story...haha.
    I built a simple sub-frame the just bolts on to the bike. It is really easy to take off but I usually leave the sub frame on the bike even when I ride it as a solo. There are only 4 bolts to remove the car from the sub frame. The bike wasn't modded in anyway. everything bolts on. I did change my design a few times so the pictures without the body on may not be the final product. I also upgraded to USD fork because the side car was twisting the crap out of my stock forks. The bike now has 44mm usd forks not shown in the pictures. They are much stiffer but it is still very uncomfortable to steer since I didn't do any mods to reduce the trail. That is definitely going to be a project very soon.

    linky: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830629

    Pics:[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    1st Prototype
    [​IMG]

    I hope this helps. Sorry I didnt have any really good pics of the mounts.
    #12
  13. Matt Gent

    Matt Gent Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Oddometer:
    114
    Location:
    Treasure Coast, FL
    I don't think the single tube with the 4 clamps in a line is a great idea. When the sidecar is loaded in jounce (upward force on the wheel), the only thing keeping the sidecar from rotating about that tube is the friction of the 4 clamps.

    You want to build some vertical wheelbase in between a lower and upper set of mounts. It may not need to be as substantial as the two tube design, but more like the triangular gusset you have shown for the hack shock mount. Even a clevis like on the yamaha dirtbike hack above welded to the main tube moves the mount point up an inch or two.

    I would keep it simple with same-size square tube everywhere, and weld on tabs or clevis where needed, with some up/down combination to build the wheelbase.
    #13
  14. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    Makes sense, and in line with what I was thinking. In my research, I have seen a couple of hacks with just one round tube and I liked the simplicity of it and the ability to adjust the car wheel trail, but it seems like you say, a good bump and it would twist in the clamps.
    #14
  15. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    K, so here are some more ideas... Don't mind the tub just yet... Just threw that together.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The frame.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Any glaring stupid problems? I have a couple other ideas to simplify this design a little bit.

    Maybe a little more background on this project to- Part of the reason for the design is due to the bits / pieces / tools I have available to me. Another part (mainly the round tube) is its something I've never really worked with / done before, so I want to figure out how to do it. School of hard knocks. Learn tons that way.

    That said, I'm still open to suggestions, thats part of the design process. :deal
    #15
  16. Qwik

    Qwik Adrenaline Addict

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7,011
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, California
    Why use round tube? Why not go with square tubing and lose. The risk of rotating in the clamps?
    #16
  17. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    Couple of reasons...

    The round tube gives me an easy pivot point, both for toe in AND trail (I WANT to be able to rotate in the clamps as part of the adjustment). I think with the current design having two different levels, the pipe rotating in the clamps is a non issue- can't happen. The top two clamps will be pushing, the bottom two pulling, no rotational forces around the center line of either pipe. I could be wrong though!

    The BIGGEST reason for the round pipe- I've got lots of it, and I've got a tubing notcher I've been dying to try out. :evil

    I like to make things harder than they should be. :dunno At this point, this is all a pipe dream. In all likelyhood, if I were to ever build it it would get a LOT simpler and I probably would go to square tubing just for ease of construction, but like I said, I want to teach myself how to notch & fit tubing. Eventually if I found a good way to bend the tubing, I'd like to build some custom baja style truck bumpers among other things.
    #17
  18. FR700

    FR700 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,512

    Not having a go at you , just a heads up.

    Trail is solely controlled by the headstem and the forks offset on the bike. Wheel lead is I believe the term you may wish to adopt as it puts everyone on the same page regarding any questions you have.

    Toe in/out refers to how out of parallel the chair wheel is to the bikes centerline fore and aft. The only thing you will achieve with your current plan is " lean out/in ". That is , how much the bikes vertical centerline leans away from vertical.



    I see what you did there.


    Nice work you did on the bicycle trailer :thumb


    .
    #18
  19. eldomike

    eldomike Who Cares

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    982
    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    My Hedingham uses round....

    [​IMG]
    #19
  20. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,406
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    Yep, thats what I meant... Sorry for the confusion!

    I *think* I can get the toe in / out with the struts- Lengthening the rear lower strut and shortening the front lower strut would give more toe in, and then I would have to adjust the upper struts to match... No?





    :norton
    #20