Great Western Trail Tracks Wanted bits and pieces OK!!!!

Discussion in 'GPS Tracks - West & PNW' started by Buddy_Holly, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    After riding so rim, I will motorhome highway 89 Alt over Navajo Bridge to Buffalo Ranch road S of 89 Alt.

    Then on bike what I think is your track from Benchmark SW then North crossing 89 Alt to Franks Res then back south on road just outside park back to 89 Alt.

    Then moving to Hwy 89 east of Kanab, ride two options down to Franks Res and back.

    Then Ride north to Deer Springs ranch again on your track and back down Johnson Cyn.

    Then move to Hwy 12 at Bryce and ride south to Deer Springs ranch and back.

    Are we doing the same thing?
    #81
  2. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    You're talking Greek, and I speak Google Earth. Remember, I never look at maps, so I don't know the names of places or landmarks unless they are cities or major highways. So I have no idea where most of those places you listed are. I'll email you the tracks I'm going to ride.

    I did just now take some time dusting off a map, and here's a few comments:

    - Frank's Res is on Crawdaddy's tracks, which in that area are not on the GWT based on my study of the the GWT scanned paper maps. The tracks I'm email you show a somewhat parallel track 5mi West which IS on GWT, and which I will be riding approximately 22 October. BTW, the Old Spanish Trail goes East/West right in that same area (according to DeLorme map)!

    - Crawdaddy has tracks in the Buffalo Ranch Rd & North Rim area as well. Maybe that's what you're using in that area? If you're planning to ride dirt from Buffalo Ranch Rd UP the mountain to the forest area of the North Rim following tracks from Crawdaddy, you'll find that's a DOWN ONLY path ("Kane Trail"), i.e. too steep the last mile going down, no road at that short spot, and never travelled except maybe by horse and Crawdaddy. I'll be riding that general area too, but I've picked a path that mostly stays off the main roads, and will not be novice rider friendly. I know a lot more than I'm sharing but will keep a few secrets to myself.
    #82
  3. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Thanks for the info about the Kane trail. We started on a trip last Thursday and were planning to ride up that stretch. I could see from the topos that it was very steep and the "road" does not show on very many maps.

    Anyway our trip got aborted due to a mud disaster outside Chinle AZ. We spent an unplanned night stuck on the mountain and had to be rescued by the Navajo police the next day. Three of us trashed our clutches trying to slog thru the mud.

    Guess we will try again next year. I suspect we will go up the mountain on 89A and then head south on forest roads to pick up the GWT over to Jacob Lake like Crawdaddy's track.
    #83
  4. Countdown

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    R & R and Topo show a route north of Kane. The Auto Club Indian Country map shows a route south of Kane. I am going there the first week in October and wil check them out. I have track posted on GPSXchange.com and will update after my trip.
    #84
  5. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I went back and compared our intended track to the CORE track. I looks the Kane trail is about 9 miles south of where we intended to go up the hill. Our planned road enters the forest at 36 41 45.5, 112 01 07.7. The road shows up on the Benchmark map and on Garmin Topo but not City Navigator.

    I chose this road because it looked like the most logical path for the GWT based on the "GWT" symbols on the Benchmark map.
    #85
  6. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Exactly what I thought but Crawford did go by what looked like some great views of the Grand Canyon on the north side.

    See tracks I am looking at in the area.

    Attached Files:

    #86
  7. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    That's the way as shown on this GWT map. But the road South of Kane Tr is the one that matches this GWT map. I guess I don't know which is most correct? The Southern road is a lot closer to the scenic view points Crawdaddy marked, but those points are a bit off that second GWT path.
    #87
  8. Countdown

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    How do you get any resolution from these picturres? I can't see a thing.
    #88
  9. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Here is what we were going to try to do. I chose the southern road leading up the hill because it looked better defined on Google earth. It sure looks like a steep sucker when I look at it with my Delorme software.

    I think the east route north of 89 would be interesting after about 9-10 miles. The only map that I have that shows a road there is the Benchmark map. I made my track by trial and error using Google Earth.

    Attached Files:

    #89
  10. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    I overlay the GWT map picture onto Google Earth.

    It takes 10 seconds to import it into GE as an overlay picture, and a minute or two more to stretch the picture and line it up so roads are in the correct place. Then I make the GWT map picture semi-transparent so I can see both the GWT picture map and the underlying GE satellite image at the same time. So, I can see exactly where the line drawn on the GWT map lines up with roads I see in GE. When I do that, those GWT lines line up moderaltely well with existing roads I can see in GE. Once I have that, I use GE to draw a "Path" along the underlying road. Then I convert that Path into a track in a GPX file. That's the process I used to draw all those GWT tracks I drew all the way through Utah.

    In general when I do this, the GWT line is within a few hundred feet of a real road I can see in GE. Sometimes it's a bit offset to one side or the other, and they sometimes draw that line with smooth curves instead of the sharp intersections that really exist, but it's easy to see that and draw my Path more acurately than they draw it.

    When I did this using the two GWT maps I linked to above, the two different GWT lines lined up pretty well with those two different roads. It's pretty amazing that it worked so well with that smaller low resolution image, but their black line was real close to the actual road, and has the same curve to it, even as it goes up towards Jacob Lake.
    #90
  11. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I was trying to use these to track the GWT before I discovered the notations on the Benchmark maps. Back then I would key on things like forest boundary corners, other roads, etc. to try to place waypoints on actual roads as shown on Topo maps.
    #91
  12. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    The road you have in that GPX file is what I have been calling the "North" road, i.e. North of Kane Trail. The "South" road is about 14 miles south of what you drew.
    #92
  13. Countdown

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    I assume you are talking about the three ways shown in my Jacob Lake file? With Cane (Kane) in the center.
    #93
  14. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    That's correct.

    The tracks you posted actually show a two way split on that "North" way up. The "Track 041" is real, and matches the way wbbnm posted. The slighty further North way in the "GWT BM 11" track does not appear to be a real road. In that area I have much better imagery than what's in GE, and at best that's a rabbit trail that a Jeep followed down once a decade ago. At the bottom it also goes through an apparent fence where I don't see any gate or other through passage.
    #94
  15. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    This sounds like a useful technique for trip planning. I think I will try it. I am down from DS riding for a while until my new clutch parts arrive.

    Can you link the map picture to GE view scaling so that when you zoom in on the Google Earth view, the map picture also zooms in?
    #95
  16. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    It does that automatically. One issue is sometimes the overlay map doesn't exactly line up with the GE view across the whole image. It can be perfect in one area and off a bit in another area. This happens a lot when the overlay map covers a large area. So, when comparing the overlay map with the GE image, sometimes you have to re-adjust the overlay position a bit as you go along. The other critical factor is the transparency adjustment. You have to play with that a bit to get it just right so you can see both the overlay map and the underlying GE imagery.

    You can overlay an image from a website, as I did with the GWT maps, or you can scan your own maps and link to them on your hard drive.
    #96
  17. Countdown

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    Spent 4 days, completed tracks form South Rim up to just south of Bryce when storm sent me home. Lots of mud and washed out roads. Will Work on Southern AZ next spring then back to Utah next summer.

    See latest file on GPSXchange.com
    #97
  18. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Jerry, can you list which tracks are the ones you just rode. I can't tell which were there before you started, and which ones are your active logs from this ride. I still have a trip planned for that area in a couple of weeks, and may have a chance to verify some of the other GWT paths between Jacob Lake and 10mi into Utah.
    #98
  19. Countdown

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    Very simple just open the track and look at the time stamp and you can see when I rode it. I post all Active Logs with all the data. You can also tell how hard the route is by looking at my speed. Everything from Camp Verde to Bryce are my Active logs or hand drawn optons (with no time tag) that I didn't get to ride or noticed after I left the area.

    I quit just north of Hwy 89 when I came to a washout after a lot of mud.
    #99
  20. Snuffy

    Snuffy Long timer

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    I'll take a wild guess that you were on the Sand rd. headed up to Deer Springs ranch. I believe it is the only road listed as GWT in that area.

    Once at Deer Springs there is a road(GWT) that will take you up to Tropic Res. There is a gate at Deer Springs that could be locked. If so, ask someone to open it for you.

    I was up there 3 weeks ago but unable to ride Deer Springs north due to mucho rain.

    I have not seen your or anyone elses proposed routes. From Tropic res heading north i'm presuming you head up onto the Aquarius Plateau?