GSX-R750 vs. Ducati 848

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by bostonsr, Jun 15, 2008.

  1. bostonsr

    bostonsr Just weight

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,402
    Location:
    NYCff
    Was browsing the latest issue of Sport Rider....600cc supersport group test, 2008 GSX-R750, and Ducati 848.

    Was wondering why they didn't have a comparo between the 848 and the 750...until i saw the raw numbers:eek1

    Despite being 10lbs heavier...and having almost 100cc less displacement...the 750 TROUNCES the 848, soundly.

    How does ducati get away with it?:huh must be a sucker born every minute.

    the 750 is 1/2 second faster in the quarter at +7mph higher trap speed.

    2 seconds faster in the top gear roll-ons (60-80 and 80-100)

    i suppose if buyers would stop buying the hype/mystique...and started buying the stuff that works...maybe ducati would come out with some respectable machinery.

    until then, it looks pretty....but what'll it do?

    abe
    #1
  2. Grainbelt

    Grainbelt marginal adventurer Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    27,204
    Location:
    Minnyhappiness
    On the street, none of that matters.

    On the track, they race in different classes.

    What is your point, exactly?
    #2
  3. Uwe

    Uwe n00b

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Oddometer:
    847
    Location:
    Montco PA
    Four cylinders vs. two. Four can produce more power every time because they can rev higher due the shorter stroke and the smaller, lighter reciprocating parts. So if the only thing you care about is going fast in a straight line, of course a 750-I4 will beat an 850-V2.

    How does Ducati get away with it? Same as BMW and HD. They each have a unique feel, heritage, and a loyal cadre of owners. At least part of the attraction in each of these is that it's not a UJM.

    -Uwe-
    #3
  4. bostonsr

    bostonsr Just weight

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,402
    Location:
    NYCff
    what seems to be lost on some of these first responses is that straightline numbers are simply a means of quantifying what we "feel."

    they are the "standardized testing" by which we can judge the capability of the machines.

    sure, the gixxer may be geared shorter...but whatever the case...the numbers show better accel over a distance, and better accel in top gear. all with more weight (emissions equipment maybe?) and less displacement.

    neither bike is a slouch in the corners...to be sure...but, i'd prefer the icing on the cake that comes with the gixxer.

    oh, and it's a couple-grand less to purchase.

    exclusivity doesn't mean a whole lot when you're trying to negotiate a corner as fast as possible...what the machine will do matters WAY more. Ducati NA would love to have me believe they build the "best" sportbikes out there...i'm not understanding what crack they are smoking.

    of course...racing in different classes is a sure way to insulate yourself from competition that would improve the breed...

    abe
    #4
  5. tslewisz

    tslewisz Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,382
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
    Have you seen the latest AMA proposals?
    #5
  6. bostonsr

    bostonsr Just weight

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,402
    Location:
    NYCff
    are u talkin about ducati wanting to field a 1200cc bike?

    jeez...how much handicapping do they need?

    abe
    #6
  7. MLuddyJr

    MLuddyJr Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Oddometer:
    359
    Location:
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    While the machine matters far more than exclusivity, modern sport bikes have long since past the point where the machine can make up the difference between two riders. The reality is that you could start plucking street riders of varying skill levels and stick them on the track with either a GSX-R750 or an 848 and you'll find that their lap times are limited by their skill level more than the performance difference between the two. The motorcycle shopper who decides between a GSX-R750 and an 848 by looking at the dyno chart or a time slip is a squid.

    You mean like in WSBK where the Ducati breed has improved so much that they're the only manufacturer on the planet to still take home titles with a v-twin?
    #7
  8. tslewisz

    tslewisz Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,382
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
  9. RocketJohn

    RocketJohn Hook em' Horns!

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    11,386
    Location:
    Denver Metro
    this thread has not begun well...
    #9
  10. bostonsr

    bostonsr Just weight

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,402
    Location:
    NYCff
    well, this squid didn't just look at the dyno chart...i looked at my wallet, too...and my wallet backed up what the dyno told me. rarely do we get such cosmic agreement. not only is the duc more expensive...it's also dog slow and requires more maintenance!

    i donno how many shoppers enjoy getting less for more...i'm not one of them.

    my bike has yet to darken a dealership maintenance bay...how many times would a duc need valve adjustments in 15,000miles????

    but yah, maybe that 2008 750 is a POS and i'm completely unawares.

    abe
    #10
  11. dircha

    dircha Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    161
    Don't blame the customers. The fact that the 848 sells in spite of the 750 tells us more about Suzuki the company than it does about Ducati's customers.

    Suzuki could start by coming up with a sportbike bike more visually inspiring than my refrigerator, or that's even slightly less annoying than a mosquito when they buzz by my home at night.

    I don't own a Ducati. But I'd own a 1098 in a heartbeat if I could bend my leg enough to sit on and safely operate one.
    #11
  12. RocketJohn

    RocketJohn Hook em' Horns!

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    11,386
    Location:
    Denver Metro
    2 checks...
    #12
  13. Grainbelt

    Grainbelt marginal adventurer Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    27,204
    Location:
    Minnyhappiness
    I'd hate to hear what you think of my anemic 650R. :rofl

    On the road, I'd rather ride the Duc. Have you heard a Ducati with Termi pipes burbling along? Sounds dead sexy.

    That said, I don't have any use for either one, and if I wanted a track bike, it would be an SV or an old R6 or something. To beat on.
    #13
  14. bostonsr

    bostonsr Just weight

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,402
    Location:
    NYCff
    half of ducati's "engineering" team must be lawyers and marketing types...they whine about being unable to compete cc for cc until WSBK restores a displacement advantage...then suddenly they are competitive.

    abe
    #14
  15. madav8tr

    madav8tr Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Oddometer:
    458
    Actually, since the field "was" leveled a few years back, the I-4's have taken home more WSBK titles. Now Ducati has a displacement advantage again, 200 cc's, but they are still struggling it seems but time will tell. On a side note, when Honda started playing the game like Ducati did in 2000, the RC51 took the title 2 out of 3 years. Back to the original topic, the 848 vs 750. As a sporting motorcycle, based on sporting parameters, the 750 is the better bike. 2 equally skilled riders and the guy riding the 750 will turn faster lap times. I roadrace a Duc and they have their advantages, chassis feel, better stock suspension, braided lines etc....but performance wise, they still trail the GSXR750. I am not trying to bash Ducati at all because I truly believe that on the street, the bike doesn't matter nearly as much as the rider.
    #15
  16. anonny

    anonny What could go wrong?

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,761
    Location:
    Beautiful Revelstoke BC
    For some people raw data and hard numbers is not what is sought after, I'd take a Ducati any day over a cookie cutter japanese bike. So what if I gotta shell out a few more dollars, it will all come back on the day it's sold.
    #16
  17. RocketJohn

    RocketJohn Hook em' Horns!

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    11,386
    Location:
    Denver Metro

    they seem to depreciate just as much as the Japanese...

    if you pick up a Ducati 3-4 years old... you can get a smokin' deal...
    #17
  18. madav8tr

    madav8tr Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Oddometer:
    458
    Yeah, don't believe in the resale myth when it comes to Ducati's. They can be a b*tch to sell, I have owned 3 of them, and at least with the japanese bikes, there's always a squid around wanting to "upgrade":evil
    #18
  19. gweaver

    gweaver NorCal is Best Cal!

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,648
    Location:
    Sonoma County, CA
    I've never owned either of the bikes in question, but having come off a 4-cyl supersport (ZX9R) on to a V-twin (950 ADV), I can say that I much prefer the power delivery of the twin. Much smoother and easier to control, not the on-off hit of the 4. I think when it comes to the ride, (judging from the reviews), that smoother power delivery is why testers seem to prefer Ducs over UJMs. There isn't as obvious a peak in the HP/torque curves on the twin, so you can just roll on the power while leaned over and not have to worry about getting spit off. Plus, it's a Ducati! :clap

    Of the two, I'd take the Duc- exclusivity, y'know. It wouldn't get lost in a parking lot, that's for sure. I was in the local dealer last week, dreaming (and drooling) over the used 748... :evil

    G
    #19
  20. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,386
    Location:
    USA
    I agree in that the 750 is the better bike on paper, but to hear a Duc is to fall in love.
    #20