Guzzi Nuovo Falcone

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by leafman60, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    Hi Leafman,
    I'm sorry but I do not own the figure you're looking for;

    Can you explain to me the importance of knowing the number of specimens built by year model,
    when do we know the total number produced?
  2. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Well, I came across a number a few years ago that the maroon 1974 Civile, like my bike, was only produced in 74 units for that year. I am trying to document that.

    By 1974 they were shutting down the Civile production and primarily building the military-based Sahara.

    .
  3. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    ah ok now is clear,
    the NF Bordeaux color ,
    was produced in 1974 and was one of the last tentative to boost the selling of the NF civilian versions;
    Considering that the entire production of the Civile was only 2874 ( 74 NF produced with Bordeaux color livery, can be a realistic figure, (guessed)what a coincidence : 19(74); 28(74) it must be 74;) )

    I dout that even in Mandello they dont know the precise numbers produced of that version;
  4. 9triton

    9triton Adventurer

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    so cutch plates ....

    as in an earlier post i was having trouble with the clutch being impossibly stiff -and getting progressively worse as it got hot in traffic . was struggling to hold clutch in and couldnt stop it dragging

    pulled the cover off , and with home made tool got the clutch compressed and the plates out:

    my civille has 4 friction plates - all approx 2.65 mm thick and 4 plain steel plates - all approx 1.4mm thick .

    total of 8 plates

    the 6 clutch springs have a free length of 46.5mm .

    the clutch pack - ie 8 plates is approx 16. 7 mm thick

    hmm ..

    the manual i have (a militaire)says 7 of each plates. - ie 14 total and a spring free length of 37.4mm

    so am i missing some plates ? -or are the civilles different ?

    do the longer clutch springs go with a thinner pack?.

    or has some one taken it on them selves to do a mod ?-

    any one got the clutch plates thicknesses and wear limits available?
  5. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    Hello Triton,
    there are no differences on clutch between Militare and Civile;
    What is indicated on the manual is correct, in total, there are 14+1 plates and the spring lenght should be 37, 4 mm

    It seams that someone did a modification
  6. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    Hello Leafman,

    I had a conversation with a friend of mine in Italy who own a 1974 NF bordeaux, with a frame number 13865,
    knowing that the production of the Civile ended on 1974 with frame number 13985;
    ( the Militare and the Sahara continued till 1976)

    Based on that about 120 ( bordeaux and white?) or more units where made on 1974;

    Will be interesting to know if your frame number is earlier than 13865

    Still searching...
  7. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    According to Mario Colombo's book, the Falcone Civile was produced from 1971-74 with frame numbers CF11111-13985.

    The dark red maroon bike with chrome fenders was produced only in 1974.

    That still does not say how many were made in 1974.

    I am not sure if the white tank version of the Civile was sold as a 1974 model.

    My previous understanding is that only the maroon version was offered in '74.

    My Civile number is CF13853.

    That seems to say that at least 132 were made if all '74 models were dark red.

    .
  8. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    I wonder what Kater's bike number is. It is a dark red one too.

    Franz????
  9. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    Hi Leafman
    meanwhile that Kater brings us its contribute ,
    I taked a look in a small database of NF of a forum in Italy and the frame 13758 is appearing as the oldest one, which bring the total number of 227 close to the more realistic count of 250 units produced with a different colour that the tradition white/red
  10. Kater

    Kater shock-proofed shorttimer

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    Hi Leafman and Randell,
    my Civile - the colour is "amaranto", not maron or burgundy- has the Number 13656, so all theories don't work.
    The Civile is not a rare bike, but no problem for me.....
    My Caproni is much more rare..., here a pic from building up the Kater special one - made from the incomplete one and goodies stored in my garage.
    My NF espresso project is waiting in the back

    image.jpeg

    First I had to machine the head, the front wasn't in line out of the factory, now it's perfect...
    image.jpeg

    And it will have an aluminium cylinder with Nikasil surface, fortunately I have got raw ones and make them fitting...
    image.jpeg
  11. 9triton

    9triton Adventurer

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    Randall - thanks

    can anyone tell me the correct thickness of the individual friction and plain plates ?

    or the thickness of the complete stack of plates (14)?
  12. 9triton

    9triton Adventurer

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    ok next question :
    pulled outer clutch cover off - and looked at the crank quill shaft and corresponding bush in the cover :

    the quill shaft is worn and has ridges in it -and the aluminium bush in the cover is worn -actually looks worn elongated . cant be doing oil p[ressure any favours - although i guess soil is spraying about the inner cover .....

    what is the solution here ?

    from the post looks like some form of nylon? hex shaped spring loaded rubbing block is added .


    or is there some other fix - ie an oil seal ? replacing the bush in the cover .


    bush in cover : hard to see but it has ridges worn in it inetrnally

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    crank quill :and agian has a number of ridges worn in it -enough to feel with your fingernail
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  13. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    wear on the bush is pretty typical. they are all like that.
    i prefer to fit oil seals
    basically remove the bush, (a internal bearing puller is nice) put the bush in the lathe and cut a recess for a oil seal,
    then fit the bush back with the oil seal on the inside, facing out.
  14. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    If Kater has a number of 13,656 then that means at least 329 red bikes made to get final number of 13,985.

    Based on Colombo, the total production run of the Civile (both color schemes) 1971-74 was 2,874.

    .
  15. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    Thats right,
    this figures shows that the Civile and in particular the red version is quite a rare model;

    I noted even , that some Civile where made upon specific request of some dealers or clients (e.g. Teo Lamers in The Netherlands) in a unic color ( for Teo was produced a Civile with completely grey metallic aluminium color)
    fews NF Civile where made even in metallic Light Blue color;
  16. 9triton

    9triton Adventurer

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    hub thanks :

    by chance, do you have any oil seal part number .....


    ill start searching - but if someone has done the homework and can advise the number would be great.

    Edit : had look on the web : 14mm ID seal x 20mm OD x 5mm thick would do the trick

    and another question - am I correct in thinking that this bush is the main oil feed TO the crank?-as well as the relief valve ?- so having a nice fitting seal will be good for crank feed
  17. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Kater has done all of this. He has plowed this ground.

    He may have posted pictures. Look in the index on page 1.

    .
  18. Randall Antwerp

    Randall Antwerp Been here awhile

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    Hello Ketar,

    Thanks for your contribution,
    and congratulation for your special ones ;)
    which type of brakes did you used? V7Special?
  19. Contractor

    Contractor Adventurer

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    Triton I have also done the rotary shaft seal conversion,it works a treat.Thereis a series of posts redsingle did and a little kit he offered. I used his method and it worked great. I used a Viton seal which is the same size as the gear change shaft seal and made the retaining washer/ring etc, I am away in Adelaide but will be back in Melbourne Wednesday evening and could show you the layout on Thursday.
  20. 9triton

    9triton Adventurer

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    thanks leafman - i did a search before i posted and didnt come uo with anything,

    Contractor - yes please to pictures.


    so the outcome is looks like i need to buy the full clutch kit to get the extra plates and a set of correct length clutch springs - hope santa can do express delivery ...to down under.