Guzzi Nuovo Falcone

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by leafman60, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    You see a good amount of NFalcs in Italy, mostly military types, not so many Civilians. They never imported the NFalc to UK so you dont find a lot there. They're rare as chickens teeth in North America. I really like that red one.

    My old 850GT is a beautiful bike. I was a fool for letting it go.
  2. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    those are nice finds...
    if you plan to tonk around for six months, you should consider sending the head to escher for lighter valves first.

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Nuovo-Falcone-Civile-Zylinderkopf-8-mm-Ventil-Umbau-/290844094887

    these engines have a well earned reputation for dropping valves,
    this is the result of a dropped valve at 100 km/h:eek1

    [​IMG]
  3. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Damn !

    But, realistically, how often does that happen. I thought these things were supposed to be bullet-proof!
  4. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    mine exploded with 39.000 km on the odo,
    a friend had his Nf explode at 20.000 km.

    The NF just needs a couple of modifications to live up to his bullet proof reputation :D
  5. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Ive read a little bit before about dropped valves but I cant remember what the cause was said to be. Anybody know? Looks like the valve crown broke off.
  6. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Oh well.

    Escher is in good ole Deutschland. Anyplace in US experienced with this ? I doubt it since so few NuFalcs here.

    If I were going to have this work done, Id rather someone do it that has done it before.


    Lord lord.

    Tell me about the oil pump, Hubert.
  7. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    the oil pump from a twin is pretty similar,

    [​IMG]

    the good thing is the gears are 2 mm wider , resulting in 15% more capacity.
    i use aftermarket pumps with 4 mm wider gears ( 16 mm instead of 12 mm wide , resulting in 30% more capacity
    the t3 pump has a proper needle bearing , due to the lack of bearing the falcone pump tends to wear out early.

    as you can see on the pic the mounting holes on the falcone pump on the right are smaller than the T3 pump on the left
    i made a plugs to press into the t3 pump mounting holes, and redrilled the holes, using the falcone pump as a guide.

    the other difference is the end of the oil pump shaft,
    on the falcone pump it is a taper , on the T3 pump a straight shaft

    [​IMG]

    i weld up the hole in the falcone gear , and turn up a nice straight hole in the lathe, if you dont want to weld your precious gear you might get away with using a tapered bush.
    i enjoy using the lathe....
  8. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    What aftermarket pumps? I saw something like that on german ebay, I think.
  9. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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  10. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Quote from Huub on another site-

    ...any proper machine shop should be able to fit a couple of valves .
    i ended up with home made guides, fiat ( truck) valves, enfield bullet
    valve springs, retainers and collets , and ducati lash caps.

    or you can buy the complete set from escher.



    How about a link to the recommended valves, guides and retainers? I can't find them on the Escher site. Looks like they are selling a 7mm valve stem set-up?
    .
    .
    .
  11. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    escher doesnt list them on their website but does the conversion,
    the ad on ebay is from MTR ricambi, another german firm,

    http://www.mts-ricambi.de/html/nuovo_falcone.html

    sending a head over is a bit unpractical , but i think they can be persuaded to sell you just the parts. so you can have them fitted locally.
    i see they have a 7 mm and a 8 mm setup.
    i have not seen the 7 mm setup yet.
    7 mm would have the advantage you can get away with even softer springs.
  12. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Hubert's advice cross-posted from google
    ______________

    i didn't bother changing the seats , they seem to last pretty well.
    you might get away with the old oil pump if it still is in good shape.
    ______________

    any proper machine shop should be able to fit a couple of valves .
    i ended up with home made guides, fiat ( truck) valves, enfield bullet
    valve springs, retainers and collets , and ducati lash caps.

    or you can buy the complete set from escher.
    ______________

    on my falcone it was just the valve head snapping off.
    the damaged piston is the result of valve head rattling around in the
    combustion chamber.
    nothing wrong with the seat , i didnt need to change it, and it is
    still in there 40.000 km after the blowup.

    apparently the valve issue is lack of lubrication of the camshaft , so
    the opening ramp wears away
    as a result the valve is violently slammed open.
    due to the vertical valve guide the exhaust valve guide hardly gets
    any lubrication and wears out , causing the valve to slam on the seat
    while it is not properly centered , causing a bending force on the
    valve.
    the guide was pretty worn when i had the valve snap.
    all this together with heavy valves and way too strong valve springs,
    something has to give.

    ( i am not making this up myself ,a couple of guys from the german
    falcone club found all this out , i consider them the experts.
    looking at what happened to my falcone , i think they might be right)


    the valve seat issue is a different issue
    some heads are soft , and deform under the head studs .
    those are prone to have loose valve seats.
    i have one of those heads too, it took ages to get it off the engine ,
    the casting around the head stud had deformed to the point it closed
    up on the threads.

    now the biggest question, is your bike likely to have valve problems?
    who knows?
    personally, after having one of my engines blow up 200 km from home i
    prefer to be cautious.
    i enjoy riding my classics as much as i can , i have no use for a bike
    wich i cant rely on.
    i change valves and - springs on every falcone i work on.
    if i end up throwing away 150 euro of perfectly good parts i consider
    it a small price to pay for my peace of mind.
    after the mods i consider the engine bulletproof , i dont hesitate to
    ride it as fast as it will go.

    cheers,
    hubert
    ___________________
  13. Hippodan

    Hippodan Hippodan

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    [​IMG]Hi Leafman,
    I am the owner of the blue Nuovo in St. Catharines, Ontario. We exchanged emails way back when I had mine on eBay. It didn't reach reserve, although a fellow from Australia was very interested and almost bought it. The problem with eBay is that it doesn't give you a chance to wheel and deal with the interested parties off eBay. In response to someone's comment: yes, it is the bike that was at Blue Moon Cycles some time ago.
    I remember seeing your bike on eBay last year when you bought it. I'm glad it worked out good for you. Did you fix the scratch on the tank yet? I see you use a tankbag that hides it anyway, that's a great idea.
    Back then I was surprised to see a different muffler than what I got on mine... didn't know they came that way from the factory.
    Mine is still for sale, $6,500, if anyone is interested, but I'm not in a hurry, it's a great bike to ride around locally. I got too many bikes, I'm getting old, insurance is terribly expensive in the Great White North.
    As you said in your report, and I fully concur, it's very relaxing and fun. The picture someone posted of the bike was in Buena Vista, VA, at the National Guzzi rally last year. It was great riding it around the Parkway. I also had my Convert there, but it was in the de-bugging stage, and left me stranded just outside the town, on the highway, at noon, in 103F. Had to get AAA to bring me back to the park. It was a loose crimp connection at the battery post... I have since soldered all the crimp connectors on the bike!
    Cheers,
    Dan
  14. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Hey Dan. Hang in there. Takes time to sell things sometimes.

    Yes, I've enjoyed mine so far. Havent done much to it. It is all-original paint etc so I hate to mess with it too much.

    Regarding the different mufflers (and the tank), I'm sure you know that mine is the Civile (Civilian) model for '74 that came with those items.

    Why dont you just hang on to that thing, man ? They are so rare, you will have a helluva time finding another one in North America.

    Are you coming down for Daytona Bike Week? Gonna bring it ??
  15. Hippodan

    Hippodan Hippodan

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    I am in no hurry to sell, really like this machine, and you are right, I'll never find another one. But I'm getting long on the tooth, and I'm getting tired of the upkeep of so many bikes and cages.
    I thought about Daytona, it's been 3 years since the last time, but maybe it will be next year. I'm getting ready to head down to Arizona beginning of April for two weeks riding down there on a GW. I think it's going to be great.
    Where abouts are you located?
  16. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    A Gold Wing ?????? Boy, that's a helluva contrast with the NFalcone

    Im on the gulf coast just outside Pcola FL but in AL
  17. Hippodan

    Hippodan Hippodan

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    Location:
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    Too bad you are not closer to Phoenix, where we'll be based out of. It's a rental, not mine. I have an 84 Aspencade, at home, which I seldom use anymore. Mostly ride or trailer my 76 convert to MG rallies, they have the nicest people around. Just got it to the point of being mechanically solidly reliable, but cosmetics need lots of work/money, so that will wait, if ever. I don't mind looks, as long as my bikes take me there and bring me back.
    The wife doesn't like the NF, the pillion seat is not very comfy.
    The front seat is amazingly comfortable, very similar if not identical to the police solo seats on the Ambo and Eldo.
    Cheers,
    Dan
  18. Andy-Gadget

    Andy-Gadget Any bike can go anywere

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    Better photos of the zero kilometer NF that is now fully paided for :clap

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The red points cover is already changed for a standard alloy cover, came standard with the civilian air filter, very happy with the bike.
  19. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    interesting bike , a police bike with dual seat and no rear footrests,
    civilian air filter and no pinstriping in mudguards and tank.

    never seen one of those
  20. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

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    Awesome bike !

    Looks to me like it may have been re-painted ex-factory ?

    The red points cover and the decals don't strike me as something done at the factory. Also, the paint looks almost like clear-coated. Not knocking it. Just wondering.

    Could this have been a custom paint job done for/by the fire department? Never heard of or seen a factory-made fire department bike.

    Also, those turn signals. I wonder if they were an add-on.