Gymkhana

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Vulfy, May 6, 2012.

  1. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    Whats your take on that Vulfy?
    Apart from getting a headache trying to watch it I would never have picked the green ring ding for the win. Just goes to show, smooth is fast. I initially thought the road bikes looked quicker but there is nothing in it.
  2. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    I just love the flow of a good Gymkhana rider. Cant really explain it, but I get butterflies in my stomach when I see them handling their bikes like that.
  3. dbuzz

    dbuzz Citizen of the world

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    Wow OMFG !! ... that is freaking awesome :eek1:clap:clap:clap
  4. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    These split-screen videos are a wonderful way of seeing exactly where a rider will make and lose time in comparison with others. It is often the case that there is one section where a rider will be superior to all the rest and from then on they are pretty well unbeatable. In case there isn't a video handy you can still do this analysis by splitting up the course into sections with one obstacle in each section. simply time each rider as they go through each section and it will soon become clear where time is being won or lost. Typically the most time is lost during the rotation turns as these are by far the most difficult to get right. A top rider should be able to make one rotation of a pylon in about 2.5 seconds.
  5. Storm Shadow

    Storm Shadow Thread Ninja

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    Bit like time sensors on sections of track

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
  6. hockeymeteenstokkie

    hockeymeteenstokkie Adventurer

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    Velcro 8 to make it a little harder
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lmeP6QWQhVo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  7. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    :rofl
    I wish I could hear what they are saying... left a bit, no, no, no, right a bit, steady, steeeeeady!
  8. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    "You are not getting my doughnuts Joe, get away from me!"
    :D
  9. Storm Shadow

    Storm Shadow Thread Ninja

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    notice they are tied together
  10. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    Yeah, I think that is a reflection on the reliability of the bikes, could be tow rope...:D
  11. Storm Shadow

    Storm Shadow Thread Ninja

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  12. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    One of our friends in Poland got a local stunt rider to attcak the course in a drift style. Made a lot of noise, but wasn't very fast. It's a great idea for when you are giving Public demonstrations of Moto Gymkhana as it certainly draws a crowd.

    http://youtu.be/ry_OhvzKt-Y
  13. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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  14. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Drifting is a spectator sport. Gymkhana is racing. But damn those guys made it look good ! :clap
  15. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Does anybody know a technique behind drifting on a bike? Is it controlling with front brake and overspinning the rear with the throttle, so it looses some traction?
  16. TheWall

    TheWall 0 miles and counting

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    ...which brings up a technique question that's been bugging me since my last practice session last Saturday morning. I set up a course that was basically a series of zig-zags about 25 feet apart (and maybe ten to twelve feet wide -- a parking space and a half, anyway -- per row). Riding the course felt great.

    Then I watched the video when I got home...I was turning like the Exxon Valdez! :eek1 (I haven't edited or posted the video yet, so no link to show what I'm talking about).

    The course that I modeled this from called for seven feet between cones, giving a max turning diameter of fourteen feet; I was easily going that far beyond the cone that marked the center of my turn (meaning a twenty-eight foot turning radius :huh). I know I'm capable of making much tighter turns than that; I routinely make U-Turns on the street from the middle of my lane into the middle of the oncoming lane, and I can easily do 360s on a low-traffic, two-lane residential street near my house.

    I was doing all the other things Vulfy and Harvey Krumpet have mentioned in other posts (turning my head to look where I want to go, trail braking through the turn, etc.), but I'm thinking that I was waiting until after I passed the cone to initiate the turn when I should have been already started the turn by the time I passed the cone. What do you think? If you are trying to make a 180 around a cone, do you start the turn before you reach the cone, or as you reach the cone?

    Thanks!
  17. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    Tehwall, :roflsorry, I have the same reaction to seeing myself. Feel great at the time, get home & watch a rigid Massey Ferguson.....

    Any hoo, when to turn? From watching vids of the cool cats who seem to initiate there turn pretty much as the front wheel passes the cone I've tried to do the same thing. I'm trying to start my head turn & body shift as I approach, use the back brake to drop the bike over as quick as I dare with a lot of lock then back on the gas.
    I try to enter the turn close to the cone & have a slightly wider exit, if I'm doing a turn greater than 180o I enter a little wider so the exit is tighter & I don't end up bulging out of the turn. If I start to turn as I pass I'm miles off course on the exit. It's the front wheel I think about getting round the cone, not the whole bike, hence my dilemma..
    The bit I'm really struggling with, the mental block, is how far I will lean the bike in the turn. I can keep the revs up & use the back brake to help with the turn so the transition from brake to throttle is ok but I just seem to have an in built limit to my lean angle, slow & tight is fine but dropping the bike right on it's ear on a proper course is real struggle.
    I find it easier if I forget about the cone I'm turning around & really focus on the next one or two I'm turning towards, it's also easier if I'm in an aggressive "get im boy" mood. The more I move around on the bike the better it feels, not sure if it is any quicker, though. I notice that some of the pros really urge their bikes around a course, you can read the body language as "come on, come on!" like kicking a horse..

    I believe an issue with our practice is over thinking. Whipping the bike around in a tight u-turn on the road is easy, I bet your not thinking about the turn but were you are turning too, your already thinking beyond the maneuvre. I feel on the course I get bogged down with what is ahead of me & lose sight of the flow, where I'm turning too if you like. A series of individual corners rather than a flowing track which is essentially what the course is.

    Practice, must practice more.
  18. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    :roflIt's having zero mechanical sympathy, no respect for your own body & plenty of money. You got to have the Cojones to get your weight right forward & pile the gas on to break traction. As a callow yoof I was dumb enough to try & emulate the racers, sliding through corners on the power, rolling burnouts & the like. If I was totally committed I could pull it off, if it was 99% I ate hedge.
    You will have a blast on dirt roads doing this on the DR, a lot less traction makes it easy to light the rear up get a feel for the bike "drifting".

    What are the rules on loss of traction in motogymkhana?
  19. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Motogymkhanaman posted a simple operation to finding the smallest turn radius of your bike. It doesn't necessaraly help you with the technique of HOW to attain that radius, but at least knowing how tight your bike can potentially turn, can help you judge your progress.

    Get off the bike to either side. Hold bars and turn them to full lock to your side. Have some guide marks on the pavement so you can judge how wide you are turning. Walk the bike straight up, with bars turned, until you make half a circle. That's your larger turn radius.

    Now do the same thing, only at the same time as you lock the bars, tilt the bike to its side as much as you can, and walk it like that. This is of course might not be fully achievable depending on the weight of the bike, and your own strength.

    This gives you the tightest radius your bike can attain.

    The difference might actually be in just few feet, or at least it was in my case, but it was still a good learning exercise.

    With the information on the potential turning radius of your bike, next step is the time it takes you to turn it.
    Faster you go into the turn, the harder it is to actually keep the bars at full lock, but easier it is to keep the bike leaned into the turn.
    Slower you go, its easier to keep bars at full lock, but bike wants to fall over.

    The problem with me, is that feel of loss of control when the bars are at full lock. We instinctively push and pull on the bars in a turn, even if its just millimeters to control the lean of the bike.

    When there is no room in one direction, ei full lock, we lose that ability to fine tune our balance on the bike.

    At this point, you have to steer with throttle. If you are falling over, release a bit of the rear brake or add more gas. If you are loosing full lock and your bars drift away to the center, slow down by adding more rear brake.

    What helps me, is to start really nice and easy and slow. Have the bike fully upright, get the bars to full lock, and ride nice and slow in this position, straight up. Then slowly start adding lean to the bike, which will automatically add a bit more speed. On and so on.

    As far as the entry into the turn, that is a tricky subject in itself.

    Again its a balancing act. As motogymkhanaman referenced to his Japanese teachers, you need to be "leaping" from cone to cone. Slow around, fast to the next, slow around.

    What that means is that you need to be twisting that throttle wide open at the exit, but be fully on the brakes at the entrance.... and then trail brake into the turn.

    You WILL drop your bike practicing this, so just take it easy and practice what you can, if you are unable to invest in more "dedicated" gymkhana machine and its protection, AS WELL AS YOURS. Please wear armor. It really hurts falling down off the bike, even at slow speeds.

    So at the entrance to the next turn, you are going all bat shit out. However you need to drop ALL of that speed so you can successfully turn bars to full (or at least near full lock) and negotiate turn in the tightest diameter possible.
    You brake hard, and you brake INTO the turn.

    This action makes your front wheel fold under you. You can get two results out of this.
    One: you go down.

    Two: front wheel folds under you right into the full lock position, and its up to you to control the throttle, the brakes and your balance, to keep the bike moving and falling over, right into a nice tight turn.

    If all of this sounds complicated.... it is.... I SUCK at it. :cry

    P.S. as far as the actual entrance point into the turn... that sort of depends on your speed. You don't want to do swooping turns around cones. So its all in your braking and speed. I would say, generally, start turning when you are by the side of the cone. That would require a fast flick into the turn though.
    Also, the turns are offset from the cone. Treat cones as NOT the center of your turn, but as an exit apex.

    So next time when you practice, note how far away from the cone you are, when you complete the turn at an exit. Next time at the same turn, offset your entrance point to the side, by the same distance that you had your cone to your side at an exit.
    This way, when you complete the turn, you should be almost brushing the cone with your bike.

    As another gymkhana teacher told me, is to try to turn around the cone in such a way, that the tip of the inside handle bar, is positioned OVER the cone at the apex of the turn.
  20. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    And I fully agree with Harvey Krumpet on the over-thinking part.
    If you can make it as simple as possible for your brain to digest the information coming, and turn it into muscle memory, then you are successfully learning.

    Try breaking each task to the simplest parts, and start evaluating each one as you ride, one by one.
    All of them will be happening at the same time, but concentrate on one thing, and try to feel with your body, what you are
    doing.

    Play with it as well. Be creative. No right or wrong answers here, just what works better or worse for you.

    I personally have been going back and forth in the riding position during the turn. Either leaning out into the turn, or counter leaning. Still trying to make sense of what works for me the best.

    Hopefully that, will result in faster times. :clap