Gymkhana

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Vulfy, May 6, 2012.

  1. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    #41
  2. shaddix

    shaddix Banned

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    They must have the bikes geared to crawl then cause my bike stalls below 10mph if I don't use the clutch.
    #42
  3. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    They do some modifications. Rear sprocket and maybe setting idle a bit higher. My speed triple handles it fine. You do apply a healthy dose of rear brake though.
    My speed Triple is stock though.
    #43
  4. go gonzo

    go gonzo The Mustard of Pants

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    Subscribed.
    Keep posting vids.
    #44
  5. Bill_Z

    Bill_Z Dude! chill,...

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    I have been riding for years and have never slipped the clutch as part of normal riding. I was taught that slipping the clutch would be bad and cause my clutch to wear out faster, so I never slip. Usually, I just engage and disengage the clutch as quickly as possible. The only time I may slip the clutch is in very tight traffic, waiting at a light, or navigating a tough situation.

    When considering the restricted space and tight control required in heavy traffic, it makes sense to me, in a slow speed situation to slip the clutch. However, when I was riding 8's yesterday, I was dragging the rear brake. I felt that this was allowing me to make a tighter turn, but I also knew that if I was ever to get "fast" I'd have to learn a different technique.

    I have been to another rider class where they taught more about the "friction zone." But I was never able to feel confident to put that technique into practice, until yesterday. I was trying to use the friction zone, while slipping the clutch, and dragging the rear brake. Still too slow, but I was tighter in the turns.

    I have been reading on another web site about a mechanical adjustment to the Throttle Position Sensor on my fuel injected bike that would make the throttle less "snatchy." Fuel injection, as you roll on the throttle, tends to come on at a point, very quickly, with a surge that could be disastrous in a tight turn. So, I've been researching this fix. Until then, I will have to slip the clutch while employing trail braking in these types of maneuvers.
    #45
  6. nulluser

    nulluser Been here awhile

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    A few friends and I setup the pattern that MotoMind posted at 50' to keep the speeds down. I had dirt knobbies and had a lot of trouble on the asphalt. Well worth the $20 in cones.

    Best time for the 50' track was 20.0 seconds, with an average time of around 23 seconds across the riders.

    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XdHJS6aCE-E" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
    #46
  7. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    well what I was taught, slipping the clutch is the same as friction zone. You disengage clutch a bit, so that just a fraction of motor's power is transferred to the wheel. Friction zone is just that gray zone between fully off and fully on. I personally use it, all the time when riding in heavy traffic at speeds where the bike is about to stall out. For switching between gears at speed I clutch very briefly. When hard on the throttle I up-shift without clutch, and for downshifting its just a quick stab with a quick blip, or smoother release with harder braking without blipping.

    When I was just starting to learn slow maneuvers, way before I even knew what Gymkhana is, I got a DVD "Ride like a Pro" which teaches slow maneuvers that are used in Cop's rodeos. They ride pretty much all the time in the friction zone. However their courses are designed for much heavier bikes and slower speeds. With Gymkhana you are trying to haul ass and I personally think that by not touching the clutch, you are able to keep the power to the rear wheel all the time especially for those fast transitions and fast flicks into tight turns.
    #47
  8. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Nice! I'm ordering lap timer and joining the fray. 50 foot course. 20 seconds is the bar for now. :D
    #48
  9. dredman

    dredman Dirt Disciple

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    I think every bike is different, and you will ride them differently. Each course is also different. The Japanese (JAGE) courses have long straights that allow wider lines at higher speeds. UK MotoGymkhana & AMGRASS keep the straights short and the speeds low, so the lines are narrow and quick, hence changing body position is much more difficult.

    We are working on more training videos, and we have one that is clutch/brake specific. While not everyone needs to feather the clutch, most streetbikes dont have a lot of power at low speeds/low RPMs, so feathering allows you to keep the RPMs, and maintain the burst of power needed for bikes not geared really low.


    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2Mw4rTo2orU" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>



    I ride dirt knobbies too

    great video nulluser :clap

    looks like you guys are doing it right
    #49
  10. nulluser

    nulluser Been here awhile

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    Here is a run on the bike with a decent front tire:

    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/g4RzXymqCQs" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

    And from the side:

    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tir4tcDGEZY" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
    #50
  11. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    These guys are hauling the mail in the rain

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ajOQOPe5Bxs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #51
  12. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Dredman, can't wait for some training videos from you guys. Info is really scarce, every little bit helps.
    #52
  13. birds

    birds Been here awhile

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    went out and tried it for the first time without any timers yesterday. The parking lot was sandy and dirty and there were big areas of broken glass that we avoided with our setup (It was the Tuxedo, NY ren fair parking lot, I imagine a lot of smashed goblets).

    Had a blast, but I really want to start timing to try to improve. I'm looking forward to trying the setups you guys have up here, too. We tried setting some things up, but there was a lot of trial and error, so it will be nice to get more ideas from more proven courses.

    It looks like I have a lot of reading to do on techniques. I can put in a different front sprocket easily enough to try not slipping the clutch at a lower speed. I wasn't quite going lock to lock yet, but my locks are really far apart. Should it feel like your headlight is facing real far down? I have to really think about what I'll be practicing. I weigh almost as much as my motorcycle, so I have a lot of options with throwing my weight around.
    #53
  14. Bill_Z

    Bill_Z Dude! chill,...

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    Is this 50 feet between each cone or are you measuring the entire pattern at 50 feet, end to end?
    #54
  15. Bill_Z

    Bill_Z Dude! chill,...

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    #55
  16. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Should probably be Dunlop Man, since they are sponsoring all of their events. :D
    #56
  17. Ronin ADV

    Ronin ADV Gear addict

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    So I tried out this pattern today. Wow. I found this one to be substantially more demanding than the first one by Motomind. The back half, particularly the final three tight circles are a real killer. I don't know about you guys but after several laps, I am spent. This is a real workout. Hopefully it's just my poor technique and with time I wont feel as tired. I also find that this stuff really highlights some basic skills. In addition to good balance and throttle control, I find it essential to really rotate my head. If I don't turn my head around hard and focus on the next cone, I am done. I also find that it highlights my weaknesses. For me I am much stronger turning left so those tight right hand circles are a bitch. Lastly, as has been pointed out, dragging the rear and slipping the clutch is key. Lots of fun and great practice. I sure as hell won't be worrying about those tight u turns on the street anymore. :lol3
    #57
  18. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Haha, I'm glad you enjoying that pattern.
    Yeah, as I said, if you feel as if you came out of the gym after a day of practicing, you are on the right track. You move a lot on the bike with those tight turns.

    One thing that was pointed out to me, and I wasn't even thinking it would apply for this type of riding, was to ride these tight turns with entry point, apex and exit in mind, just like you would on twisties.
    At first I was just riding them nilly-willy, turn is a turn. After I starting thinking where would my apex be around the cone, for the exit towards the next, it changed everything. It makes it much clear where I need to brake, how much I need to brake, and where to exit and just gas it to the next one.
    And yes, head is very important.
    #58
  19. Bill_Z

    Bill_Z Dude! chill,...

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    V: I know you said that your pattern is roughly 80X80 but can you be a little more specific? I would like to recreate this pattern for my next practice session on Sunday but I'd like to know I'm ridin' something close to what you guys have been talkin about...
    #59
  20. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Long timer

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    Yup, that's what I have found, try & think a turn or two ahead to get smoother lines, makes you get on the gas & lean more too. Hows your neck? I feel like an owl after 10 minutes..:rofl
    #60