Gymkhana

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Vulfy, May 6, 2012.

  1. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    gps isn't accurate enough.

    chalk the tires in 6" quadrants towards the chicken strips. you'll see exactly where the tire is on the ground.

    as far as going fast vs slow, slow and tight in the turns is a faster (shorter) overall time.

    if you want some interesting numbers, get someones cellphone and load a gforce sensing app.
  2. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Perfect!
  3. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    The iPhone apps such as Dynolicious and Harry's Lap timer are very good, but as you say, the GPS is not sufficiently accurate for our requirements.

    Instead we use the Video VBOX and VBOX sport devices which work on Doppler shift and are much more accurate. I did do a screenshot video of the results we get from these devices and they are quite wonderful for analysing Moto Gymkhana time attacks.

    The quality of the video is not the best, but it does give you an idea of how we use the data logger to compare and contrast riders and attacks.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MbFtLcsbTew" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    The website for the VBOX sport contains some interesting information on the devices. http://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/index.php/products/performance-meters/vbox-sport
  4. thedrewski86

    thedrewski86 too few miles

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    Man I know this was from a couple days ago but I just got back to this thread - very nice video! I did some similar runs inspired by this thread in a parking lot by my house. After 10 min of riding keeping in mind what I have skimmed from this thread I was cutting figure 8s tighter on my old 600 lb CBR faster and tighter than I thought possible. I didn't set cones up but there were a couple pairs of catch basins in the lot that allowed for an easy figure 8 and a tight one that was more challenging. Feathering the rear brake really helped tighten everything up. Thanks a lot! :clap
  5. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    thedrewski86: glad you are enjoying yourself and improving. Cheers :beer

    Found this guy on YouTube, from Poland I believe. VERY impressive!!!

    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xjZuGxE5FOE" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AIoi4GOedsg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
  6. thedrewski86

    thedrewski86 too few miles

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    That's the kind of stuff I was working on! I was just telling a riding buddy of mine today that we have to make this a weekly exercise. I'm hoping we can find a good parking lot for Saturday morning practices.
  7. arbutus

    arbutus Adventurer

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    Very cool. I would love to be able to control my bike like that. I'm a pretty new rider, with a new bike, and the riding season has just started, so I'm pretty much at level zero, but I'm interested in trying this out and building up my skills. Today I went out and was just trying to get a feel for the bike to see how it handles and what I can do with it.
    I ride a Suzuki TU250, so it's a pretty lightweight bike. One thing I noticed is that in first gear the throttle is kind of like an on/off switch, so the bike'll just surge forward at the slightest input and jerk to a slow down when you roll the throttle off. I have a rear drum brake on the bike too (I'm not mechanically inclined, I just know that drum brakes are somehow not as good as disc brakes). It seemed to take a lot of pressure on the pedal to get the bike to run in first gear at an ultra slow speed. Is there anything I need to be aware of when I'm practicing this stuff, in terms of my drum brake?
    Because of the surging, and jerky-ness at the edge of stalling, I was having to use the clutch a lot to smooth the bike out. I'm a bit disappointed with that but maybe if I get better and can do faster tight turns I won't need to use the clutch eventually.
    Good thread.
  8. thedrewski86

    thedrewski86 too few miles

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    If the throttle is that on/off I would experiment w/ feathering the clutch and rear brake while doing tight turns. I would think eventually you should be able to just feather the rear brake but do what the bike wants. Also I'm sure the throttle character will get better with more experience. The drum should be fine so long as everything is in good adjustment. Good luck!
  9. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    fix the throttle first, don't cover up the problem with brakes and clutch. those are wear items, and their wear will accellerate quickly if the throttle isn't working smoothly first. you'll be working a lot harder manipulating all three instead of getting the focus on technique.

    that drum will get hot, just like a disc, be careful you don't melt the grease out of your wheel bearings.

    we rode the tu250's this past summer, fantastic bikes, very very smooth, very friendly, and very fun. they handle GREAT and should give you a plenty of enjoyment and practice once the throttle is working right.

    get some videos up !
  10. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Hi Arbutus and welcome to the world of Moto Gymkhana.

    I wouldn't worry too much about being at level zero if I was you as that is the very best place to start!

    Before you get into the meat of the various riding techniques, we recommend that you learn the "Golden Rule" of Moto Gymkhana which is that "Your bike goes where your nose is pointing"!! We call the technique the head-snap and here is a great slo-mo video of one of our friends in Japan demonstrating its use on the GP8 course.

    <IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EAJEcmWnZgs" frameBorder=0 width=420 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

    If you get the hang of this technique then everything else becomes so much easier.

    Another thing we recommend is the basic riding position which is butt - back, knees - in, head - up and elbows - out. Another thing to bear in mind is that it is supposed to be fun so get out there and enjoy it!
  11. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Also don't be afraid to set up a camera and film your runs. Much easier to see your mistakes as well as progress when you can see yourself from outside.
  12. arbutus

    arbutus Adventurer

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    Thanks for the video, that's pretty cool. So he's not using the clutch at all, or the front brake (even though it seems you could use it in certain situations), but is he also not using the back break?? He's not *only* using throttle control is he? That would be impossible on my bike I think.

    I think I might start off doing some higher speed, wider figure 8s to get used to turning like that and gradually work down to tighter turns. At a low speed right now, I know I have to look where I want to go, but I'm still working on balance btw using the clutch, the brake and throttle (as I'm sure everyone here knows, incredibly minor adjustments mean the difference between putting a foot down or going a bit wider than you wanted). It's really hard to look ahead like that when I feel the balance is shaky, but maybe it really does just take practice. I think a lot of the time I was looking through the turn but then down to see what was going on. I was also just trying to do the tightest turn possible, I haven't set up pylons or anything yet.
  13. arbutus

    arbutus Adventurer

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    Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by fix the throttle? I do love the TU so far, very fun to ride, very forgiving and generally smooth, except (seemingly) for at a very low speed in first gear from coasting to throttle, and back.
  14. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    it was very smooth, never jerky, on the two I rode. find out why yours is like an on/off switch and you'll be smoother on your practices to.
  15. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    That rider is most definitely using rear brake, and I'm pretty sure he uses front as well, just lets go of the lever at the tightest point, to roll on the throttle. Yes, no clutch.

    I wouldn't go too deep into all of this right away, as it can get a bit overwhelming, especially if you are a new rider altogether. Keep it simple, and do one step at a time. Once you are comfortable with what the step you are doing, you can start adding on top of it.

    I think you are right about just starting wider figure 8. Get used to the bike leaning, find the confidence in your tires.

    Simplest exercise Alabama guys posted, is a 20 foot diameter circle. Thats about the width of two lane road or about two parking spaces. Just get something to mark the circle, cut tennis balls, cones, or even cans of coke would do the trick. Start riding the circle from outside, and then as you get more comfortable, start moving into the circle. Do a few laps one way, then reverse. This is a great exercise which will show you where you are with the bike.

    Here is the video, courtesy Amgrass.com

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_m9B77j9qpY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  16. liquid_ice

    liquid_ice Been here awhile

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    I second this, last weekend I have done my 6th or 8th gymkhana day (imagine a japanese rider telling about the number of day's, haha) and only now I used the front break a little in a VERY wide exercise. Never used it in GP8 and I managed to do a 37,8 seconds GP8 in Donington.


    By the way, I think a talent is rising in the Netherlanders:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RF-FEVEVQqQ
    a nice 34,7 seconds

    I have promised some pics from our last Amsterdam day:
    [​IMG]
    http://www.motogymkhana.nl/Site/Upload/Albums/1366727233uESQQ1/1366727246Axjf34.jpg
    http://www.motogymkhana.nl/Site/Upload/Albums/1366727233uESQQ1/1366727246Axjf34.jpg
    http://www.motogymkhana.nl/Site/Upload/Albums/1366727233uESQQ1/1366727265CTUsbk.jpg
    http://www.motogymkhana.nl/Site/Upload/Albums/1366727233uESQQ1/1366727309Z2JRVz.jpg
    http://www.motogymkhana.nl/Site/Upload/Albums/1366727233uESQQ1/1366809550VudZlv.jpg
    http://www.motogymkhana.nl/Site/Upload/Albums/1366727233uESQQ1/1366809664Z3Bxki.jpg
    http://www.motogymkhana.nl/Site/Upload/Albums/1366727233uESQQ1/1366809640Y5WwLQ.jpg
  17. mitch96

    mitch96 Been here awhile

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    Hi,
    Lurker here. Every year about this time the Motorcycle Police officers have a competition down here in South Florida. This year it's at the Hard Rock in Hollyweird.
    I was watching them practice trying to get some tips on slow riding.. They do it so well!!
    Here are some clips of them throwing around 700# Harleys,Honda,Bmw and Kawie concourse around the pylons..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cms0bkNj7A

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yotsgbjWqAI

    They all use clutch in the friction zone, throttle fixed or blipping (makes you cool) and modulate the speed with the rear brake.

    What I noticed after two days of watching is when going around really slow pylons, the first thing they do is move up really close to the tank. Like nuts on the tank close. They also hinge at the waist. The bike and their lower body tips in and the upper body is straight up and down. When the bike is half way around the cone,they snap their heads around and look at the next cone. Some have their head and eyes up and some gaze down. I could not really tell where they were looking as they all were wearing sunglasses. Some do a slight countersteer at the begining of the turn, some don't.. Just some observations...

    All in all a beautiful day in lovely down town hollyweird....

    mitch
  18. Mazaev

    Mazaev Been here awhile

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    Hey, when are you guys gonna be at FBF again? Looks fun :-)
  19. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Mazaev: PM sent.

    mitch96: yeah those rodeos are pretty cool to watch, thanks for the links. Unfortunately all of them lack speed. Its very technical riding, which is an enjoyment to watch in itself, but it gets a bit boring after a while.

    As far as riding like that, check out the "Ride Like a Pro" videos. He covers exactly that.


    liquid_ice: nice! :) Girls on bikes is always a pretty thing to watch. Wish you had more of the action shots.
  20. liquid_ice

    liquid_ice Been here awhile

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