Gymkhana

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Vulfy, May 6, 2012.

  1. TheWall

    TheWall 0 miles and counting

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    Thanks!

    Now I just have to learn to *do* it, as well as explain it :rofl

    Off-topic: I took my wife's CB750A out for a ride the other night, and stopped in a school parking lot for a few minutes of figure-8/GP-8, and...I really want a '70s CB750 of my own, now! I don't know if it was the lower C.G. (as compared to my V-Strom), the BT-045 tires vs. my Shinko 705's, or what, but that bike made some beautiful, tight little 8's in the parking lot. The brakes were a little weak compared to my Strom, but otherwise, it was an absolutely brilliant bike for gymkhana! Can't wait to finish up my XS750 and see how it compares :)
  2. shaddix

    shaddix Banned

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    I am always fighting the bars on my bike in very tight turns. Not sure why I'm afraid of letting it go to full lock and staying there
  3. wiseblood

    wiseblood Hall Monitor

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    Danger with full lock is that you can't counter-steer to stand the bike up. Only way to get the bike up (at least, without putting your feet down) is to throttle up.
  4. shaddix

    shaddix Banned

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    I am finally starring to break my habit of putting a foot down. I've survived so far out of luck with no broken ankles. The other day I slowed too much for a u-turn. I started to take my foot off the peg but caught myself and put it back and let my turn finish(continuing to fall) before I added throttle. I am not precise enough to add throttle off idle without shooting off into the weeds so I have to be pointing the way I want to go first
  5. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Full-Lock aaargh!

    Of course when the bike is at full-lock it is no longer possible to control it by counter steering so we have to use some other method.

    We are so used to always being able to counter-steer that when we are no longer able to do so we get gripped by a deep, but understandable feeling of impending doom. We can overcome this by doing the 'kissing the stops' exercise which involves riding in a tight circle and similtaneously pressing on the rear brake and leaning out of the turn. If we're lucky the bars will come round and 'kiss' the lock stops for just a moment. The trick is to try and get the bars to do longer and longer kisses until we can do a complete 360 with the bars against the stops.

    Top tip is to not close the throttle during the exercise as the bike will want to fall over completely with it closed.
  6. Storm Shadow

    Storm Shadow Thread Ninja

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    i spent considerable money on my vfr800 to modify it to be smooth, why isnt it smooth when its a brand new bike, because the fuggin emitions, being an old design, they have added crap to it, and added crap to it tha twas just never designed to have. the emissions tests are only done at low revs, at a certern speed, so these are the areas, they have detuned it, to use less fuel, less exhaust emmissions, less noise. they sacrifice usability down low, giving me surging, an on off throttle, and flat spots.

    full staino race exhaust, removes the cat, free flowing, disabled PAIR air injection which pumped clean air into the exhaust system. and a powercommander 5, to remove the underfueling they have given it down low.
  7. shaddix

    shaddix Banned

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    Wow awesome! I now have my afternoon planned!
  8. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    nice advise and instruction.

    if there is any slop in the throttle cables the slow work (and faster stuff) at the stops suffers. a snatchy on/off throttle at slow speeds and full lock is so aggravating.
  9. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Quick note for those who are not on our Facebook page and group. This weekend session is rescheduled to SUNDAY 05.19.
  10. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Just to show everybody that Moto Gymkhana can sometimes bite back, our friend Fumikatsu Nakamura made this little video. Now Nakamura-san is an expert rider with many years of experience under his belt and this little crash compilation shows that when you become dedicated to the sport the odd "off" is inevitable. He put the video together to show clothing manufacturers the types of falls that are experienced by Moto Gymkhana riders so that they can improve their designs. The last dismount is a cracker!

    <iframe width="960" height="720" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iIauYu5CeVg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  11. rthuey

    rthuey twist your wrist!!!

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    insanity is not as easy as i make it look
    ^^^

    if rankings are shown by vest number then that number nine should get moved up to the number two spot real soon. he fell twice within seconds of each other. obvious why the number one guy got his spot.
  12. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    they are sooooo smooth
  13. Jezza

    Jezza A British Invasion

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    I like the last dismount, a kindred spirit :D this was my first attempt at Moto Gymkhana, but I'll be back for more.
    [​IMG]
  14. shaddix

    shaddix Banned

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    Be careful with that ninja!

    After two thirty minute sessions, one yesterday one today, of that kissing the stops exercise, I was able to make a full lock 360 degree turn using the rear brake and throttle to keep from going down and keep from coming off the stops. I was very happy about this!

    I was only able to do this turning to the right however, turning to the left is for some reason more difficult. It seems like I have to lean further or lean the bike over further to get it to turn as sharply to the left as to the right.


    This exercise is really helping me make "on-demand" very tight u-turns and I can now do them within 2 parking spaces without any warmup time. I am ready to tackle the BRC2!
  15. Sckill

    Sckill Been here awhile

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    I think we'll start a trend for our next session.

    [​IMG]
  16. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Might be you throttle hand. Motorcycle control is not symmetrical. You might be having difficulties with the left turn, because your right/throttle hand is stretched out too much for comfortable control of the throttle. Try different positions on the bike to see what works.

    I also been doing just that, practicing turns at full lock.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Rsa8u9S23JI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    After the initial panic reaction to the locked control and falling bike is gone, its not all that bad. I have two issues now through.

    One: is that the bike is traveling super slow, I'm nowhere near the 2 or even 3 second 360 spin. And at higher speed I can't get to the full lock.

    Two: I can get to full lock on both sides and keep it there for a few rotations without too much trouble, however that initial transition TO the full lock, takes about half a rotation. In GP8 that means that I'm already leaving the turn, just as I got it to the full lock.

    Turns do look quicker though, however my GP8 times are atrocious right now. "Atrocious" compared to my last season when I was in 35 range and managed a few 34 runs on my DRZ. Right now I'm clocking 38-39 seconds. I managed somehow a 35.5 run but that's it.
  17. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Mr Kimura spent quite a bit of time explaining this problem and offered two solutions. The first and the one that is recommended for new riders, is to make a much wider offset to the pylon and start leaning the bike way before the entry point. That way you get a lot of lean angle change out of the way before making the final transition to the optimum lean angle and full lock. The second method is to do a max roll rate capsize at the turn point, but this is very much a technique for the expert!

    In the first case the key skill is using the front brake to augment the rear before the turn point. Mr Kimura says that you need to go fast between the pylons and not to take a lot of space getting the bike slowed down enough so you can go slow(ish) around the pylon.

    When watching a rider do a rotation, he sees where in the turn they achieve the max bank angle, which is usually on the opposite side of the pylon from the turn point. The aim is to move this point closer and closer to the turn point so that the bike is at max bank angle for longer and the spiral entry path is shorter as a result.
  18. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Just thought, didn't mention how to achieve lean angle without turning the bike.

    Dead easy exercise to do, simply ride in a straight line and push gently, but firmly on one of the bars. Normally you would push and release to initiate a turn, but in this case maintain the pressure on the bar whilst shifting your bodyweight to counteract the lean. You'll end up with the bike leaned one way with your upper body leaned the other way. All being well, you'll end up maintaining a straight course.

    This is a fun exercise as you will wobble all over the place until you work out how much lean out you need relative to the amount of pressure on the bars.

    In Gymkhana we only need the very slightest of pressure to give us enough lean for our needs, but this exercise is a great one for all you track-day riders to practice as it sets up the perfect cornering body position for your size and weight. The difference between the two is that track-day riders release the pressure on the bars to turn the bike in the direction they are leaning, whilst gymkhana riders apply the brakes to capsize the bike in the other direction.

    Give it a try, it's loads of fun.
  19. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    I'm a bit confused by all of this to be honest.

    So lets say I lean the bike to the left. To do that, I would have to push on the left handle bar. To counter the lean and the turn, I would move my body to the right side of the bike, and hang off (counter lean) to the right.

    So for a track turn, I would release the pressure on the left handlebar, so that the bike leans to the right where my body is, and go into a right side turn.

    For Gymkhana, applying the brakes, would counter the momentum of the bike and capsize it to the left???

    Are there any clips from you guys, or maybe Japanese riders that would illustrate this for Gymkhana?

    Track illustration would be great too, as I've been trying to scrape my knee for the past few weeks now, without any result. That's of course outside of Gymkhana discussion, but still.
  20. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    The effect is very subtle and is very difficult to see in video so the best way to learn it is practice it!

    If you want to get your knee down on the track however, a gross input and counterbalancing body position will set you up perfectly for that knee-down moment!