Gymkhana

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Vulfy, May 6, 2012.

  1. Redclayrider

    Redclayrider Long time gone

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    From last nights GP8;

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/72507820" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/72507820">Yamahamer's Birthday GP8 Bash</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user8889988">harvie woolley</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
  2. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    thanks man !

    we had a good turn out, I rode (ok, failed at riding) a royal enfield, with left side brake and right side gp shift, and man was it confusing.


    mark had a birthday, and he's still solid gold.


    good times hanging out with some realllllly good folks.
  3. NMEof

    NMEof n00b

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    Hi, I've spent a weeks or so slowly reading through the whole thread (its very good).

    I'm over in England and managed to attend the Cumbria Experience day, there's even a photo of me on the motogymkhana.org site, I'm on the GSX-R.

    Since then I've been slowly practicing getting to full lock and as much lean as I'm comfortable with. Its coming along as well as can be expected. Once I get the hang of one part I add another and start over.

    So far I've stopped using the clutch, I use front brake into turns with slight throttle and then transition to back brake while still trail braking the front slightly. I do that to stop my rear brake cooking. I managed to change the colour of the disc from shiny silver to a brown/bronze colour recently, that's when I re-evaluated my use of rear-brake only. Last time I tried GP8 I was still doing 48 seconds so REALLY slow. I'll have to try again soon as I think I'm quicker now, I was just constant throttling before and wasn't using the front brake, or getting full lock.

    I wanted to ask people if my thought process is correct regarding this video:

    As I see it (please point out if I'm wrong),

    First 5 seconds, speed above 15mph so just turning bike via lean but braking to slow down below the "counter steer only"-speed.

    6 second mark moved into "slow" steering zone, front wheel starts to turn right until full lock is achieved.

    9 seconds full lock is achieved.

    10-11 seconds back brake eased off and bike stands up a little, still in full lock though and turning round cone - (what speed would you estimate he's going?)

    12-30 seconds, front and rear brake to prevent throttle/idle speed taking him off optimal cornering line. Also twisty head movement to prevent dizziness and also spin body to keep full lock on handlebars (looks weird and feels it but does seem to work from what I've tried)

    31-32 seconds, open up throttle and tail off brakes to power out of turn and onto next obstacle.


    I'd like to know which brake is favored. I'm guessing front to slow down while getting into full lock, then transition over to back? Or does he trail brake the front all the way through the rotation? Can't really tell from the video, wish he was wearing hi-vis gloves. I also wish they had a different colour brake lights for rear and front brakes - just to help me figure out what they are doing. :D
  4. Big Lee

    Big Lee Been here awhile

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    Hiya NME, whereabouts in Cumbria are you?
  5. NMEof

    NMEof n00b

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    A town made famous by a monster eating our bus depot. If you don't know about the Chewits advert from years gone by, Barrow-in-Furness.
  6. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Hi there NMEof, glad you enjoyed the Moto Gymkhana experience up in sunny Cumbria! Good that you have analysed the slo-mo video of Sakuta-san in action, but it's important to realise that how he does things are the result of years of practice and like all Class A riders, he had to start out by practicing very basic stuff over and over again until they became second nature.

    The fantastic rotation turn we see in the video requires a deep knowledge of all the elements of the bikes performance envelope and the particular control inputs that will achieve the maximum rates of change in any of the performance parameters.

    The video has probably been slowed down by ten times from real time so the 26 seconds it takes on the video for him to complete one 360 rotation will take only 2.6 seconds in reality. There is absolutely no chance for any of us to be able to do so much in so little time without these actions being fully automatic so rather than attempting to copy what Sakuta-san does, it is much better to work on some basics and build from there.

    Mr Kimura tells us that "If you try and go fast, you will end up going slow", so we must practice things very gently at first otherwise we will end up with 'blued' brake disks (rotors) and all sorts of other undesireable effects! The rotation turn is the ultimate expression of the skill of the Moto Gymkhana rider and competitions are often won and lost by the slightest errors in the performance of these turns.

    Why not start out by trying to nail the standing start U turn (or Terror Turn) this gets you used to all sorts of interesting responses to your control inputs as well as saving your precious brake fluid! The rotation turn is basically a Terror Turn that is continued through 360 degrees, but try starting with making only a 20-30 degree change of direction and build up from there.

    Here is a little video of a Japanese bike cop doing the Terror Turn. Watch and learn!

    <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KvWO0wVzCiM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

    Once you have watched this a few times, take a look at the video of Noboru Yoshino doing a very quick GP8 and you will see that he is linking Terror Turns together with a bit of a straight inbetween.

    <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bXoqgwAz6v0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
  7. NMEof

    NMEof n00b

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    Hi Motogymkhanaman.

    I really enjoyed the experience day. Hopefully Neil will be able to start up the northern club soon, which is when I'll become a member of your organisation well, if you let me...

    Those "Terror" turns are impressive. I'm obviously nowhere near that standard yet. My bike's manual states it has a 3.4m turning circle, I've can only do it in about 5.5m. Better than before I started practicing but still a long way shy. Even that is cheating as I use idle in 2nd gear to prevent my throttle hand from unintentionally adding speed as I tip the bike and turn the bars. Its frustratingly addictive to try to get the turn tighter. One day... (maybe, in the distant future) :D

    I've got no illusions of being able to watch a slo-mo video and then reproduce it step for step, I was just curious, I have "one of those" minds that likes to know exactly how things work.

    At the moment I'm still just happy about being able to do u-turns without duck walking. One up on my friends who didn't bother attending your event.

    One last thing, any news on the book you mentioned far back in the history of this thread?
  8. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    that second video was something mike (or local guru) was talking about last Thursday. he nailed it a few times, and it was painfully easy to see where we had been trying to go fast, instead of just turning the right way, like the video.

    after a few tries of getting the turn right, its easy to feel there may be time shaved off a run, but the habit of how I've been doing it creeps in again. more practice is needed. yay !
  9. Downs

    Downs KK6RBI

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    San Diego Riders UNITE!!!!
  10. stoke

    stoke ocean minded

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    Its time.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
  11. Downs

    Downs KK6RBI

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    Just need to setup a date to recon a lot.


    Sent from my iPhone
  12. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    I got some really nice clips on my YouTube subscription wall this week. Here is just a couple of them. Really fast riders and a joy to watch.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/SkRxN9zfJrk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nireCQYgttQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  13. stoke

    stoke ocean minded

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    Great videos. Would you guys that are experienced gymkhana riders say that learning these skills would help, hurt, or not matter for your dirt riding? I have really been focusing on dirt skills which has helped my street ability, but it doesn't seem to work the other way around.

    And yeah, SD guys, it's time to find a lot somewhere.
  14. Shooby

    Shooby Anti-Cager

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    Execute SD unification protocols stat!
    Sunday? Mid-County meet-up ? Have bike, will travel.
  15. Downs

    Downs KK6RBI

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    I'm down. Sunday sounds good just setup a time and place I am not familiar with this area at all.


    Sent from my iPhone
  16. Shooby

    Shooby Anti-Cager

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    Stoke - How 'bout some Gport hijinks on Sunday?
  17. stoke

    stoke ocean minded

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    Would love to boys, but stuck with work on Sunday. I'll keep looking for lots though and PM you both so we don't disrupt this thread too much :D
  18. Shooby

    Shooby Anti-Cager

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    Thread Hijack killer! Work.. whatever.
  19. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    setup a new (to us) slalom last night. 6 cones, spaced 30, 25, 20, 12, 12 and 8 feet apart, each moving to the right 5 feet each time. simple slalom, with a 360 around the last one, then slalom back to the start. it proved too tight at the end for most, so we changed it to the rude butterfly, and then everyone participated.

    sometime around 2 1/2 hours in, changed over to gp8 and got some really good runs for the remainder. folks were very active, very good spirits, and a wide range of bikes to watch.

    I "borrowed":

    zxr1100 (the dream bike for me)
    super tenere
    3x drz's

    one of the bikes deserves a intro. while we were talking, a smallish bike rolled in, quietly. white, skinny wheels, and not recognizable (by me) for what it was. at first ithought it was an nsr250 (wow!!!) but it turned out to be the little brother, a NS 50, complete with all original pieces.

    [​IMG]
    rare ? yesssss.

    did I ride it ?

    you got dang right I did !!
    [​IMG]


    Along with a few others
    [​IMG]


    did some work on mikes suggestion for tighter/faster turns, and nailed it about 1:20 times.... wide entery, carry moderate speed, initiate deep turn, then push into the stops gingerly until the decreased turning radius swings the bike upright and accelerate out.

    it works very well. and I can see why the pros do it. very difficult to change the old habits of fighting the bike into the turn and use their method instead, but I'm working on it. it is definitely a faster, and smoother way to do the tight stuff. ;-)


    next Thursday, were taking the wkeely gp8 to a new lot, on a different side of town to try and generate more interest... maybe right in front of a biker bar ;-)
  20. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    Dang them are some stylish leathers!!! :evil

    Awesome pics and ride report!