Gymkhana

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Vulfy, May 6, 2012.

  1. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    It's as open as you make it... Just get some cones and find a parking lot.

    You don't need anything more than that to go play.
  2. stoke

    stoke ocean minded

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    So would two other guys I ride with. I'm sure just posting an event in this forum would have more than enough guys show up to make an event. In the meantime, still searching for a space.

    Also, a question.

    I just did a "Lee Parks Total Control" nine hour cornering class yesterday. All about learning to corner safer and faster. They were all about hanging off the bike, sticking your knee out during turns etc. The off road courses I've done teach you to stick your foot out sometimes while cornering sitting down.

    Why in gymkhana does everyone keep their knees/legs in (with supermoto boots you could put your foot down safely)?

    Are they just moving too fast to even be able to have the time to hang off the bike? I.e, the transition time between turns is too short? Not going fast enough?

    Just curious.
  3. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Hi Stoke, Yes there are quite a few differences between the Moto Gymkhana riding style and the style that Lee promotes, but there is no difference in the reasons why we do what we do.

    You are right in saying that we simply don't have enough time to transition our lower body from side to side so we have to make do with just transitioning the upper body instead.

    You will remember from Lee's course that he talked a lot about the 6 keys to cornering? Well it's exactly the same six keys in Moto Gymkhana so if you have learned all of them then you will be way ahead of the rest when it comes to riding!

    There is a group operating out of LA http://m-gymkhana.com/ and I'm sure they would love to have a chat with you about doing something down in San Diego so why not give them a call?

    Thumper - any bike will do it from a scooter to a full dress cruiser as it's the rider that is being challenged in this sport, not the bike.
  4. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    There is no need in removing feet from pegs, unless stopping.

    If the bike is being pushed down instead of the rider leaning, speed is high enough to do it right, ie, hanging off.

    it's a gymkhana course, not a race track. Watch the fast guys on YouTube.
  5. Chisenhallw

    Chisenhallw Avowed Pussbag

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    I've narrowed it down to 'earth'. Or 'Baltimore'.
    Is anybody doing gymkhana in the Baltimore/DC area?
  6. mitch96

    mitch96 Been here awhile

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    My question is, at what speed, angle or point near the pylon do you determine when to lean the bike under you dirtrack style or lean with the bike, road race/street style??
    Is it one of thoes Zen moments where you just "feel" when the moments right..

    I'm just confuserated........
  7. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    This us just my experience:

    Good entry speed, good decreasing radius turn= lean with it, maybe a little less than the bike

    Slower than optimal speed entry= push the bike down and get into the throttle sooner on exit.

    I try really hard to make each turn a decreasing radius, with heavy acceleration directly after the rear axle meets the cone.

    Start wide, end TIGHT, shoot out to next cone.

    See?
  8. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Leaning out? Leaning in? Leaning with? Choices, choices, choices!

    Sadly the answer is that there is no answer as it all depends on the rate of change in various values of bank angle, steering angle and speed. A lot also depends on the individual rider's experience and familiarity with the handling traits of the bike hence the fact that there is no hard and fast rule.

    It seems that riders eventually get a 'feel' for what suits them the best and the GP8 course is the only way of quickly finding this out. In about ten minutes of riding on the GP8 you can experiment with all sorts of combinations of body position and eventually you will find one that gives the best feeling of control as well as the fastest time.

    Watching the Top Riders over in Japan you can see all sorts of different body positions in use even though their times might be very similar.

    One thing that Mr Kimura does say is that if you are going to move something, be it handlebars or your upper body, move it FAST!
  9. Vulfy

    Vulfy Been here awhile

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    I know what helped me tremendously with getting a proper lean and full lock, is the Siso's GP but only tighter.

    Get 4 cones, half tennis balls, empty coke cans, whatever.

    Set each one 10 feet from the next.

    Start doing just the slalom/weave through them.

    Once comfortable with that, do a 180 at each end of the slalom, and continue doing slalom like this, back and forth.

    After you get comfortable with that, look up a diagram for Siso's GP and do that.



    At first, this exercise might look EXTREMELY challenging and you might think that there is no way you can do it and that the cones are way too close to each other.

    Do not spread them further, keep them at 10 feet and challenge yourself. After a few hours of running this exercise you will get the feel for lean angle and full lock. You have to throw your bike side to side quite a bit, in order to negotiate this exercises and that helps a lot with the feel and getting comfortable with it moving under you.

    I know that at optimal speed and lean angle, my front "locks" in place and I'm instead of fighting the bars, I'm actually pushing into them to turn even further, but those stops will keep the bars locked at maximum angle, producing that "locked" feeling.

    Its very hard to describe the feeling you get from the bike, but when you feel it at least once, you'll know exactly what I"m talking about. It feels like the bike snaps in half at the bars and locks in place, while rapidly turning around its rear wheel.

    And the body position on the bike, is dictated by speed. I know I want to achieve that full lock as fast as I can around the turn, so body position sorts itself out, as I position myself however I need to, in order TO GET to the full lock, BASED on the speed I'm going around the cone. It sort of is automatic. I am concerned more about that full lock, and everything else is done to achieve that one goal.
  10. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    :rofl
    I figured the same, the quicker to full lock, the quicker the transition through brake, turn, gas, the better.
    T'is not an easy thing to do, controlling the bike when it's on the stops is weird, nay, completely alien. No handle bar input. Just throttle, brake & balance.
  11. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    Check out this video from Japan.

    Mother v Daughter in the novice class is something you will never see on the racing circuit!

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XR3Da6VAXdg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  12. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

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    Interesting video. Be interesting too, to ask the riders, "do you use countersteering to manuever the bike" in response to riders who feel they don't countersteer, or don't need to countersteer.
  13. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    A quick question for Andyvh1959, "can we counter-steer when the steering is at full-lock?"

    Traditionally we are taught that to steer the bike we have to turn the handlebars in the direction opposite to that which we want to turn. If the bars are at full-lock in a left turn then we are prevented from turning them any further so that we can initiate a right turn.

    Full-lock is a quite normal situation in Moto Gymkhana so how are we able to transition so easily from full lock in one direction to full lock in the other without the ability to counter steer?
  14. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

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    That's because, to INITIATE a lean condition on a motorcycle, and to do it quickly and accurately, you have to countersteer. Especially evident in the video when the riders make quick transitions from left to right, right to left. THAT takes an assertive countersteer effort.

    Now, when the bike is already leaned over to full lock, countersteer action at the handgrips is clearly limited. At that point the minimum radius the bike can manuever is mostly due to the lean angle and steering head angle already established and the speed of the bike.

    Can't say I have done it to know for certain. But say the bike is at a near full lean left, slow speed so the handlebar is TURNED full left against the stop. Countersteering input on the left (down) grip would actually turn the fork away from full lock. In some cases of riding, a regular steering input is needed to make the bike stand up quickly. If the fork is already at full lock left, there is no additional steer angle possible to make the bike stand up. But I bet some front wheel brake will make the bike stand up at that point.
  15. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    That vid rocks MGman.
  16. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    Fill my mouth with a fistful of frustration. Shiga. Gaaaaah!


    <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/p_u9yeHk_IA" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
  17. ryder1

    ryder1 Been here awhile

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    Came across this thread the other day and am on page 14 in my reading. It seems really cool and a good way to practice skills.

    So, is there anyone in the SEPA area doing this?
  18. ryder1

    ryder1 Been here awhile

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    Here is a site that I came across that has many different track layouts.

    http://www.motorkhana-wa.com/ and take a look in the document section. There is a 90 page pdf with track layouts.
  19. Thanantos

    Thanantos Ride hard.

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    O God, are we still arguing this?

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  20. Chisenhallw

    Chisenhallw Avowed Pussbag

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    I've narrowed it down to 'earth'. Or 'Baltimore'.
    SEPA - SouthEast Pennsylvania?