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Discussion in 'Hacks' started by alabama mike, Jan 20, 2012.
Pipe dreams are cool...... hack it
When the sidecar builders are showing interest in hacking a fuel in frame Buell, business must be slow...
This topic has gotten off track and is becoming a little offensive. Any good shop is busy, Claude's, DMC, or us at Side Effects, we are all busy. The simple question originally asked was can his bike be hack'd. Not if he should sell it and buy an easier one, or if anybody was slow and wanted to entertain him with good information. Instead, a new member, looking for a simple answer gets answers from some and positive encouragement on something that is obtainable mixed with bickering and slagging with/of others who have posted. I'm sure the direction this thread has taken has made a few others with valuable information refrain from posting. I don't see the need for anymore time spent on the thread as it sits. But if the OP wants more info or if someone else has a related question, then perhaps more info can be put out for them.
It's easy to scheme out ways to do a difficult install, but it'd be wise to explain that while a Uly can be hack'd, it'll be a very expensive process. Best to be upfront from the start rather than baiting the hook and then telling the buyer what it's all going to cost. Or worse yet, tearing the bike apart without telling the buyer what it'll cost after all the cost overruns...
I've been reading this thread with interest and it's got me thinking. As I understand it the Uly has some interesting features that make mounting a sidecar in the conventional manor difficult and expensive. However there is always a solusion. It's just not in the box you're looking in right now.
How about the possibility of mounting the Uly directly to the sidecar chassis. Ditch the forks and swing arm. It's surely possible to make another oil tank. It's not like the oil in the swing arm is an absolute is it??
Mount the front and rear wheels on the sidcar chassis with McFerson struts or the like with the appropriate linkages for the steering.
If there is a strength issue with the frame of the Uly because it carries the fuel, then how about adding a seperate fuel tank to the sidecar chassis too. This will allow the builder to drill, sleeve and weld the frame in the nessarary places. The Uly is fuel injected, which means it has a fuel pump. So location of the fuel and oil is not such a problem is it??
The set up (if done considerately) will look great and handle well. Something seriously to be proud of.
"When the sidecar builders are showing interest in hacking a fuel in frame Buell, business must be slow... "
I agree 100% with Brock! No,, Dyna I am far far from being bored. Gotta hand it to ya you have always had a way with words that can rub folks the wrong way...lol. Read your old posts and you will see. No offense taken here really.
Bottom line is that yes the bike in question can be made into a great sidecar outfit. Yes, it would take more effort to do so than if another bike was chosen. No, it would not be a simple bolt on but today very few if th egoal is to do it right.
"It's easy to scheme out ways to do a difficult install, but it'd be wise to explain that while a Uly can be hack'd, it'll be a very expensive process. Best to be upfront from the start rather than baiting the hook and then telling the buyer what it's all going to cost. Or worse yet, tearing the bike apart without telling the buyer what it'll cost after all the cost overruns... "
THIS kind of statement IS out of line. Ii think I can speak for brock in saying that we are on this forum due to our interest in a sport we all love. The only hooks I bait are when I go fishing and frankly that has not been to often in recent years due too the work load here at the shop. If you will read my posts here as well as thoise by others whoo are doing this full time I think you will see that much info has been offered for the betterment of the sidecar world in general and not 'for profit'. For you to insinuate that we are insinuate that we are not upfront, are baiting a hook etc is a downright insult. I will not even comment on your last sentence othet thna to say that you should be ashmed of yourself.
Perhaps this idea would work? Cutsie fairing optional. But a smaller more light weight setup would reqire a lighter subframe to support it. Anybody know any about this outfit?
If logic, finance, and common sense were the sole justifications for attaching sidecars to motorcycles, then we and sidecar outfits wouldn't exist.
Just maybe it's good to be illogical now and then; deal with finance as suits you as an individual; and think more "soul justifications".
I may not wish to attach a sidecar to a particular motorcycle, but have to respect the guy who does. How he goes about it may justify advice, counsel, and comments based upon experience, and that is what this forum provides in good measure.
The Vendor forum was set up to get the participation of the guys that move our sport ahead and show off their wares. Their innovations and accumulated knowledge have been freely offered for all of us to use.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that each build is different and stating any kind of price before everything is known about the needs and desires of the customer would be foolish. That's just good business.
I appreciate their participation.
If any of you don't appreciate it and can't keep it to yourself, maybe this isn't the place for you.
This ain't about money, and I'm not accusing either of you of less than totally respectable business practices. I just think we need to be careful with newbies... You know, be realistic and convey our enthusiasm for sidecarring to them and not get them all totally over enthused about something that may not be doable or affordable. I think a hack'd Uly would be awesome, and I have no doubt that Claude, Brock, and a bunch of the other craftsmen here could build one. But affordable? Sadly, for most of us, probably not. Heck, I haven't even got around to hack'n my Buell "tuber", and that's an easy job compared to a Uly.
I do not see any problems that another "delta box" frame does not have.
Remove the foot plates and install steel plates. reinstall the footplates or make new. Extend the headstock with a third bearing, Connect the extended headstock with the steel footplate adapters with 1 1/2" tubing. Make some crossovers where possible and presto, a manufactured subframe. I know some guys who did it to a Voxan in their shed recently. They also did a Honda VFR With an aluminium frame.
Just think in what's possible, not the other way round.
I had Claude put my rig together as a newbie and was able to complete it with him ALL BY MYSELF! Sheesh, enough already please.
P.S. Thanks Claude, for not getting me all "over enthused" and everything. (it was doable and he donnit)
From my own experience (which I've been slow to learn from) it's a lot easier to buy a bike that's easy to hack but may not be our "ideal" bike than to try to hack an "ideal" bike that presents a lot of challenge to hack. My first hack'd bike, the R100GS, was bought with a sidecar in mind- I'd been diagnosed with MS and figured that I might not always be able to hold up the bike without a sidecar. Since then I've hack'd the R65LS I owned previous to the GS and bought a used R80ST specificly to hack. But when it came to new bikes, I pretty much forgot about hack compatability- first buying a Buell "tuber" in 2001 and more recently a BMW F800S in 2009. I've talked with Claude about a subframe for the Buell and he can do one for a quite reasonable price, but he's a thousand miles away from me so I haven't taken him up on the offer. The F800S came close to getting hack'd- I'd talked it over with Lee Bruns who lives close to me and he could make the subframing. But the F800's are having problems with rear bearings, so I'm holding off on further straining that bike with a hack until that gremlin is slayed.
Now if I'd bought a more sidecar friendly bike like the Guzzi Quota I'd looked at in 2001 or the Triumph twin I flirted with in 2007, I'd have a late model bike with a sidecar with minimal hassle. We live and learn... In the meantime the R100GS got put back together and hooked to the Motorvation F2 around thanksgiving, and the R80ST transmission just got rebuilt, new rings will soon be installed, and the heads are out for a comprehensive valve job. May be a while before I need a new tug...
The option of my KLR for $4000 is now a no go, The bike sold.
I say you hack whatever you want. The most crucial thing you need to determine before you hack anything though is if you're dog will ride. Not all dogs do well in a sidecar, even well trained ones. I'd hate to see you make the investment to find out your dog hates it. But then again, you'll still have a sweet hack on your hands, and that's been the best therapy this Soldier has ever had.
I'm new to hacking but not new to hanging out in a welding shop with a 350 amp ac tig machine that's welded up allot of Aluminum perimeter moto bike frames and a local Buell enthusiast stuff who buys totaled Buells from insurance companies.
Its easy work for a competent welder(Brock and Pete are among the most competent) to add gussets and brackets to a Buell frame and lengthening a swing arm would not be hard at all.
The real problem no wheelbase and a dogmo motor with pretty good grunt and little else, not enough fuel capacity, but on the other hand plenty of chain conversions and fair aftermarket support.
Personally I dislike Buells and Eric is the biggest poseur in motor-sport crying in public when HD who made him a millionaire then closed his doors! Pathetic
But I'm with Claude : Pipe dreams are cool...... hack it
EBR doors are very much open. Just bought an up grade rotor for my 09 1125cr. Never had such a first class customer service as from EBR.
As for crying, I could care less. But for HD making Eric millions......have you seen W2s for EB ? Have you ?
Just cause a company may look great on paper, doesn't mean the manager is swimming in it. But after upgrading HD bikes for over 2 decades, I hope Eric would be able to walk away & able to continue a MC business.
Should we degenerate this into a pissing contest letting out personal biases rule the day ?You have the most interesting product he ever conceived frame with Italian roots and an engine from Rotax. We are way off the topic and the free market has spoken on Buell motorcycles.DB
:huh To each is to his own.