Had my front tire wash-out while practicing breaking.

Discussion in 'Face Plant' started by Mauser556, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. Mauser556

    Mauser556 Been here awhile

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    Good thing I know how to fall. Connected my lower, back shoulder with Mother Earth and I am sore as can be. Damn this hurts. Took the wind out of my for about half a minute or longer. Still sucking air when i move around or stand straight. Nothing broke (me or the bike) and still have full range of motion, it just hurts like I pulled a crap load of muscles.

    Just a little to much front brake (ABS off), and couldn't get my weight to the rear (was practicing this...and failed). Took me about five minutes to catch my breathe. Neighbor walked over to see if I was okay. That hurt, too. Hurt worse when he helped me pick up the bike.

    bars were torqued, and so were the forks. With help, got the bike on the center stand, corrected the bars, and got the forks realigned. Bike ready to go to work tomorrow. Just hoping my back and side is.

    Evidence: Exhibit A.

    [​IMG]
    #1
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  2. White mt guy

    White mt guy Long timer

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    Bummer. Welcome to club.
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  3. anotheroldfart

    anotheroldfart Been here awhile

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    Going down hill and you grabbed front brake........on grass?
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  4. gmk999

    gmk999 ____ as a Rotax

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    Nooooo Noo NoNoNo... front brake on grass.. and on damp grass no front brake and no sudden moves (sharp turns) these heavy bikes just want to keep going straight.
    Stop with a combo of engine brake and rear brake and if you need to turn sharply, then break traction with your rear and slide it into your turn
    same goes for sandy intersections, and marbly dirt roads.
    Live and learn.. Welcome to the (forget everything you know about riding street, and relearn) club.
    Glad you are OK

    BTW something is leaning in that pict and I cant tell if it’s the Silo or the boat-port
    #4
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  5. NJ-Brett

    NJ-Brett Brett

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    Nothing to feel bad about!
    Cant ask for a better place to drop a bike.
    And its a big win if you can ride away, even if it takes a bit of time...
    You have to use the front brake almost all the time if you want to stop quickly, except maybe on ice.
    Its the amount of front brake you use that is the tricky part.
    I use it in sand, dirt, mud, the street, wet roads, in turns, but its all in the amount you use.
    After a few drops, you get the feel and can err on the save (light) side on slippery surfaces.
    #5
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  6. Mountainhound

    Mountainhound Been here awhile

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    Even on ice. But like you said gotta be careful. But then on ice everything is done slow and easy.
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  7. birtwistle

    birtwistle Adventurer

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    I honestly don't understand why learning front brake modulation on poor surfaces is a bad idea. He picked a good area and obviously either or both body position and brake modulation was poor. You may also want to take it up with Chris Birch. I practice it all the time with only the front being applied, this will increase the learning curve. Breaking in a straight line is fairly easy, even locked up with proper body position. in a corner, more practice is needed. I used to be mainly a rear brake guy when riding single track on my dirt bikes, but now 90 percent of my braking both on the small bikes and bigger bikes is done with front. Learning to use the front bake properly off road is a necessity, with abs off.
    #7
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  8. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Long timer

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    Practice. It won't make perfect, but you will get better at control and recovery.
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  9. Skyway6

    Skyway6 Adventurer

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    i do not understand why someone would practice brake modulation / Threshold braking on a bike that has ABS and then turn if off.
    You can accomplish the same task just you stay upright, if ABS activates you fail but otherwise stay on two wheels. Saves a lot of pain
    and bike damage.
    #9
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  10. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    I can't understand why you'd practice braking in those conditions with ABS OFF.

    Screw up with the ABS enabled, there's a bit of a slide, a shudder through the lever but you probably don't fall off.
    Don't screw up and the ABS never cuts in.

    You did pretty much the equivalent of throwing your parachute away before exiting the plane there :).

    And yes, I will concede those conditions are nasty to brake in and yes, with ABS enabled he may not have been able to stop. But he provably couldn't stop without crashing anyway, so where's the loss here ?. (And I have had ABS enabled in far nastier conditions than that - steep wet clay downhills and it worked fine. Braking distances were horrible, but no crash).
    #10
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  11. shovelstrokeed

    shovelstrokeed Long timer

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    If you have ABS, certainly using it under most conditions is preferred. I'll bow to other's expertise when it comes to off road.
    As to practicing threshold braking on pavement or on grass, it is probably a good idea. I do it and it has made me a better rider. My 1200 Bandit does not have ABS and neither did my 1100S Prep or my 1050 Sprint. On any bike I can quickly bring the front braking to the point of lockup and even go past that and modulate back. It is a matter of coordination with attention paid to what the front wheel is doing. Best learned by starting slow and learning what the locked front wheel feels like and stop squeezing the brakes short of actual lockup. It is a learned response and can only be achieved by practice. I say good to the OP for doing this, one day, it might just save your ass.
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  12. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    Yes but.

    IF you actually threshold brake the ABS never kicks in, so it won't screw with your practice.

    If you can't - and presumably the practice is because you can't, it'll save you from eating dirt when you screw up.
    #12
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  13. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    Depending on bike size, disabling abs and riding with a locked front can make good practice to get a feel for how the bike handles.
    Yeah, I guess that might not have been the case here, but locking a front doesn't necessarily equal flopping the bike.
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  14. NesquikNinja

    NesquikNinja Long timer

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    Can you explain when you would actually want to lock the front?

    I've always thought it was never a good idea. I'm a newb.
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  15. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    The practice is of course so one knows how it feels and don't panic should the front lock during heavy braking.
    When finding the threshold for how much traction is available one is bound to lock the wheel.

    On low traction surfaces one can try to ride for a short bit with a locked front, just keep the weight towards the rear and stay on the throttle.
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  16. Taurkon

    Taurkon Long timer

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    Lots of reasons to practice braking without the ABS on. I don't ride with ABS on when I'm off the tarmac and one of the skills that I've practiced in the past and am competent at is locking up the front tire on gravel or grass at slow speeds and continuing to ride in a straight line. That skill will help when you're in a situation when a handful of front brake is in order and I've been glad I've practiced it in the past.

    To the OP, kudo's for working on your skills and picking yourself up. :)
    #16
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  17. 51%

    51% ReadyToRide

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    First off, let me apologize in advance for what follows, I try not to be the spell-check police. But "while practicing breaking" is too ironically funny.

    Back on topic, you're doing right to practice that skill, and don't stop. I used my front brake probably several hundred times yesterday on downhill gravel. And lived. Didn't drop it either. Also I locked it up on purpose a few times just to keep in practice and to keep in touch with what the traction threshold is and how the brake performs. Doing that develops the muscle memories that keep you up in the real unplanned events. When traction breaks unplanned there is no time to think or analyze.
    #17
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  18. birtwistle

    birtwistle Adventurer

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    if you are a poor off road rider (panic brake) and never practice front lock up braking (as you can not alway know threshold lock on various surfaces, especially off road) and modulation, then keep abs on. If though, you practice and are competent, non abs braking will bring your bike to a stop much faster, especially on surfaces where grip is shit. if abs was the cats ass off road, i think ktm would be putting it on their dirt bikes, as efficient braking makes you a much faster rider. I realize there would be a weight penalty, but it wouldn't be huge. If you ride a Harley my apologies, keep abs on and the parachute.
    #18
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  19. birtwistle

    birtwistle Adventurer

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    Good brake modulation will stop a moving vehicle faster than abs. However.......you lose a ability to maneuver if wheel is locked and a great deal of control, unless you've learned front brake modulation or threshold braking. When abs kicks in you are allowing the front wheel to turn and therefore increase your stopping distance. For 95 percent of the population that will never practice proper stopping technique and body position it will cause the rider to crash. Some experts are even advocating not worrying about using the rear brake on the road and only concentrating on quick front braking, as it controls a vast margin of braking power and can reduce reaction time for new riders.

    #19
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  20. birtwistle

    birtwistle Adventurer

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    you do not want to lock up the front brake (kinetic friction takes longer to stop than static) but due to changing conditions in the dirt (not everyone rides road all the time), a situation may exist where momentary lock up happens. If a good rider has proper body position and steering isn't required at that moment, wheel lock up will not cause you to crash. No one is perfect and i personally like to know how my bike will respond if i screw up or am not able to adjust to changing conditions and front wheel lock occurs. Rear skidding or lock up is a completely different beast and can be used to steer the bike as can wheel spin. All higher level skills that very few people will need or want to have. If however, you are part of the 5 percent who actually takes their large adventure bike off road, these skills will make you faster and a safer rider if the unexpected occurs.
    #20
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