Harley guys - Xied

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Bloodweiser, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,749
    Location:
    way over yonder in the minor key
    anyone running these?

    Sounds like a decent alternative to tuner and remap.
    I've got a 2012 FLD.
    Looking to add a slipon first, and a AC in the future.

    Not sure if the Xieds will suffice,
    or I should pick up the variable Vieds

    :dunno
    #1
  2. flipr

    flipr Scofflaw

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Oddometer:
    328
    Location:
    Live Oak, FL
    I plugged in a FL-Xied-10 set the first day on my 2012 FLHR, ran them without trouble or complaint the first 1000 miles on my completely stock bike. Removed them when I purchased a Dynojet Power Vision and a couple other up-grades. If I hadn't made changes at 1000 miles, I would still run the FL-Xied-10.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aQEJHL_bg2Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #2
  3. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    19,771
    Location:
    Begin Op Zoom
    Get a screaming Eagle race tuner and have the values in your ECU adjusted (remapped) Then put the race tuner back in the box and save it for next time you make a change.

    This way there is nothing on the bike that wasn't there before... Nothing spliced in to trick the system that might be susceptible to heat/vibration.

    If you don't have a good tunrer in your area you can purchase a map from Mike Stegmann at Team Latus. Google him up. :1drink
    #3
  4. flipr

    flipr Scofflaw

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Oddometer:
    328
    Location:
    Live Oak, FL
    Dynojet Power Vision isn't spliced on. You can flash the ecm with new program and remove the tuner. Original factory map is stored in tuner, you can restore stock map at anytime, doesn't leave a footprint. (ECM appears stock after restoring original map.)

    Power Vision has self/auto tune capabilities that require connection to ecm until auto tune is completed. Power Vision can be mounted to bike and connected if you want to monitor the engine, but isn't necessary for simply flashing the ecm. Power Vision reads and clears fault codes.

    Fuel Moto provides custom PV maps as well as the Power Vision tuner.
    #4
  5. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    19,771
    Location:
    Begin Op Zoom
    :thumb
    #5
  6. 0ldhippie

    0ldhippie Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Oddometer:
    578
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Nothing beats a real tuner and proper tune.
    #6
  7. MitchG

    MitchG Iron Collector

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Oddometer:
    593
    Location:
    Fort Simpson, NT
    How very true! But you can rack up a substantial bill with the needed dyno time. If your just doing the basics (pipe/air filter) and want to adjust EFI mixtures and not looking for the last few hp/tq then this is the best bang for the buck IMO: http://www.patriotpipes.com/controller.html
    #7
  8. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,749
    Location:
    way over yonder in the minor key
    Jeezaloo tho, that powervision is $469
    SERT is $250
    Xied $100

    Whats the benefit of the PV?

    I'm not looking for top performance numbers,
    well I mean I'd like them but can't afford it.
    I want to switch out my pipe,
    (because seriously have you heard a stock switchback?)
    and would like to eliminate the stock lean conditions too.
    Going to get rid of that AC at some point,
    but that's mostly a cosmetic call
    and may be pushed to the wayside for a bit.

    I'm crazy new to this crap.
    I'm a carb guy for sure.

    Any help appreciated.
    #8
  9. MitchG

    MitchG Iron Collector

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Oddometer:
    593
    Location:
    Fort Simpson, NT
    The Patriot Top Fuler(PTF) is the exact product you need at this time with your proposed systematic upgrades. Yes I use them on all my bikes that they are available for. Here is a good link that may help: http://www.xr1200ownersgroup.com/site/showthread.php?1004-Patriot-Top-Fueler&highlight=instruction

    These things are pretty much idiot proof.
    #9
  10. Juan Loboe

    Juan Loboe Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Oddometer:
    490
    Location:
    Central AZ Megatropolis
    Xieds eliminated 90 percent or more of the nagging ping associated with the stock set-up on my 2012 Ultra. A tuner and a good map could do more, I know.
    #10
  11. Scrivens

    Scrivens Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    735
    Location:
    usually the garage
    I put them on my stock 07 Sportster 883 and they work very well. Prior to the XiED 14s the bike really didn't like running below about 60kmh in 3rd, 80 in 4th and 100 in top and vibrated badly over 110kmh when the throttle was opened up. With the XiEDs it immediately ran a lot smoother, 4th was useable around town and top was smooth over about 85kmh. I then put on a set of SE2 exhausts that I had made some new (slightly more restrictive) baffles for and did the air filter conversion. It is now very smooth, top is OK from about 70kmh, no lugging or shaking etc, it is smooth at 120 and runs to about 140kmh before the vibes start kicking in again. Plug colour is fine, fuel mileage is slightly better as it is now happier in higher gears at lower speeds and it has made the bike a lot nicer to ride. I have a tacho on mine and it is smooth in 4th and top from 2000rpm up, and will accelerate from those revs without any lugging. They only affect the closed loop fuelling, but that's where the engine spends a lot of time. Worth a try for $100 and you can always sell them on if you don't like them.
    #11
  12. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    9,077
    Location:
    the hills
    SERT,TTS or Thundermax and a proper dyno tune by a reputable tech. None of them cheap but neither was the bike. All the others are simply piggybacks that eventually cause problems or fail altogether. If you have to save and put off the pipes do it. The reward is worth the wait.

    The paradigm of "why do it right when I can do it cheap" is a false economy. They run so much better with the O2 sensors and a proper tune. Performance is far more than a big peak HP number on a chart.

    Why buy a top shelf bike and cheap it out? I'll never understand that.
    #12
  13. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    606
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    I have the non adjustable XIED on my 08 Heritage, so I can't comment on the adjustable ones. Bike is completely stock. What they basically do is move the AFR to 13.8 to 1 from 14.7 to1, when the engine is running in closed loop, which is the area after idle until about 3/4 throttle. They don't affect anything else. They are a simple plug & play device that fits into the harness from the 02 Sensor to the ECM. They trick the ECM to adding more fuel while its running in closed loop. If you think back to your carb days the 13.8 to 1 mixture was the best overall street setup for power and fuel economy. ( this was before the EPA started leaning things out)

    They are hard to beat for the price. They do work, and improve roll on throttle & drive ability. Plug color is better. I never noticed any change in gas mileage with the XIED's installed.

    I noticed the biggest difference when I put in NGK Iridium plugs along with the XIED. It made the bike come alive and really gives it some jump. Search out Iridium and Harley on the web and there is some info on running these plugs. They ( Iridium plugs ) do affect how the Delphi ignition system works, its basically the same as installing Harley's Screaming Eagle plugs. What's happening is the Delphi ignition system is designed to run with the stock Harley plug and nothing else, so it expects to find a certain reading from the plug when an engine knock ( pre-ignition ) is happening and it will retard the timing. With the Iridium or any other plug they operate at a fixed 5K ohm resistance and that will affect how the ignition system works.

    I think the XIED's for the price and ease of installation etc are really the way to go. I would even try them and the Iridium plugs together before you did anything else. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. Bang for the buck is high for this set up. If you haven't been to the XIED site yet they do have some good info.

    Lots of choices out there when you are looking a fuel management systems and good luck in your quest.
    #13
  14. blk-betty

    blk-betty bam-a-lam

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,657
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    This!

    I used the SEPST...newest version of the Screamin Eagle Pro (race version) Super Tuner on '12 Road Glide after swapping the OEM header with catalytic converter to a Fuel Moto 2-1-2 non-cat header with Supertrapp slipons and AE Air Filter kit. The newer version has a SmartTune feature that allows the owner/rider to semi fine-tune after downloading a pre-programmed map based on modifications. The SmartTune allows one to get a better tune than the downloaded map without the cost of a dyno tune and you do as many SmartTune runs as you want. It certainly won't get the same result as a dyno tune but should be much closer to ideal than the pre-programmed download map.

    I picked up an '09 XR1200 two months ago and went the less expensive route with the Patriot Top Fueler and while it seems to work well I am having low rpm stall issues. I didn't want to spend too much on this bike but bite the bullet and ordered another SEPST.

    I really don't like the idea of a piggy back system and figure I can more accurately tune the XR using the SmartTune function....and the beauty is with either bike if I make more radical changes I can re-tune at any time or just take the bike in for a real dyno tune as long as the dyno operator is familiar with the SEPST.

    Hopefully I can re-sell the PTF and recover some of my expenses....but like everything else, if you spend the extra money up front and do it right the first time you usually come out ahead.
    #14
  15. Cakeeater

    Cakeeater Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,101
    Location:
    I forget

    Thanks for the info. What are the real-world riding changes with the SEPST in? In most of the harley forums, guys post their dyno sheets...and nothing else. I don't ride a dyno.

    Is mpg much different? Pinging? Noticible power? Throttle response.

    In my stock 103 2011 the only thing that bugs me is high altitude pinging under moderate throttle...esp. with low grade gas. Going up mountain passes I make sure I use 93 octane. Seems to help.

    Cakeeater
    #15
  16. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,749
    Location:
    way over yonder in the minor key
    Because I'm pretty broke because I just bought a top shelf bike :deal

    And I got engaged 2 weeks before I bought the bike.
    She was pretty understanding there,
    but telling her I'm dropping another grand into it,
    well.....

    I think we also are thinking of difference objectives.
    Some folks are trying to get peak figures, I get that;
    and some, like myself, are just trying to eliminate the lean stock conditions.

    I've been trying to read as much as I can about this,
    and came across a mention that the XIED/VIEDs are akin to upping a jet -
    which is an analogy I get.

    Is there more to it than that?
    I mean, how much is the ignition curve effected by swapping a pipe, really?
    If this was my 06 sportster, I'd bump the jets up and call it a day.

    This fancy shit just kills me.
    I was reading up on the powervision
    and Id use it once to flash my ecm and then it'd probably go in the box.
    Is this really what shops charge $100-200 for?
    They're basically dropping a file on a USB and charging me 2 bills :csm
    Anyone within a days ride of NY with one just want to flash me?? :evil

    Yes I'd love peak figures.
    No I can't justify the expense.
    I want my harley to sound like one
    and I want to get it out of it's lean state.

    XIEDs are $50 used 7 days a week.
    #16
  17. pebble35

    pebble35 Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,871
    Location:
    Jersey, Channel Islands
    My 2 cents worth

    We sell the XIED leads in the UK. Typically to customers with stock bikes or just slip on cans. They are just looking to reduce engine heat and improve throttle response.

    Not had any unhappy customers yet............
    #17
  18. EricD10563

    EricD10563 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Oddometer:
    825
    Location:
    Central Arizona
    I think the PV gets married to the ECM of the bike, I think there is a way to purchase a second license to allow on another bike?
    #18
  19. Scrivens

    Scrivens Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    735
    Location:
    usually the garage
    I almost put that in my previous comment. I'm an old AMAL carb tuner, and these feel about the same as raising the needle a slot on a Brit 650 after doing filter or exhaust mods. It stops the 'hunting'. (And they do cut the heat noticeably.)
    #19
  20. blk-betty

    blk-betty bam-a-lam

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,657
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Sorry in advance for the long winded reply/semi-rant.....

    I hear ya on riding a dyno. The '12 Road Glide is the first EFI bike I've owned aside from a short stint with an '07 Tiger 1050 last year.

    In the past I've simply swapped jets like Bloodweiser says and I knew how to do that which is why in '06 the 2 HD's we bought were carb models even though EFI had been available for more than 5 years.....I can swap jets for under $10 but EFI tuning I knew would cost a lot more.

    The SEPST is expensive as you have to buy the software disk and the interface cable, about $400 from one of several 20% discount HD dealers.

    The bikes come from the factory lean to meet EPA emissions standards and if left in totally stock form no tuning adjustments are necessary but as you experieinced you may/will get pinging under certain conditions. If you leave it completely stock and are Ok with pinging/making sure you have 93 octane it should be fine.

    However, most HD owners make minor changes to release some of the pent up Hp/Tq that is restrained in stock form and/or to increase sound.

    My bike is much more responsive as tuned but how much of that is due to the non-cat header, slip-ons and air filter vs. EFI tuning I really don't know as I did everything at once and can't seperate the two. It clearly runs smoother than as delivered stock with much better responsiveness.

    Is the SEPST or similar tuning device necessary? On my bike as setup with non-oem headers, slip-ons and air filter, yea I think it something comparable is necessary. Could one get away with a piggy back device like the Xied, probably so but it won't run as efficiently and I personally would not go that route if I changed both intake and exhaust.

    As tuned the RG runs great, does not put out much heat and is not significantly louder than stock with sound a function of the Supertrapp mufflers.

    I expect the XR will respond similarly when I remove the PTF and make a few SmartTune runs with the SEPST. I really don'rt expect to see much increase in performance but have decided I prefer an ECM reflash as opposed to piggyback tuners. Using the SEPST reportedly voids the factory warranty but I really don't care about that, the '09 XR is way past the warranty period. I'm not sure if the Xieds do or not, I'm sure they will claim that they don't but if you have an engine/EFI issue and take the bike to an HD shop how are they going to view the piggy-back system? I know the mfgs claim they don't cause an issue but that's not a confrontation I want to have with a dealer's service dept if I'm traveling away from home and have an issue. Some claim just remove the device before going to the shop but that can be a PITA and if the device is working to richen up the engine, how badly might it run without it.

    Just as a side note, HD sells a less expensive non-Race version of the SEPST, that will allow one to load a new map to account for mufflers and air filter but the downloads are EPA compliant so it will still run lean.....probably similar to Xieds....whereas the maps in the SEPST are consdered "for race use only" and are not EPA compliant.

    It's kinda funny in that less than a week ago I was on the XR forum justifying my decison to go with a PTF rather than an actual tuning device...for the same reasons stated in this thread...$$$$$$.

    But after making some adjustments to eliminate the low rpm stall, I'm now "tuned" much richer than any of the other guys with the PTF and I still get a good bit of ping if I roll on the throttle at around 2k rpm in fist gear. So now from my limited experience, I'm backing away from piggy back fuel controllers and recommending actual ECM tuners.
    #20