Has anyone tried this tubeless wheel conversion kit?

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by JTXT, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    Thanks mcmann. I prefer tubes, never seen one fail after going fast even on German highways. Sure a tube repair in the field is no fun, but I can go on even with a badly bent rim or a huge cut in the sidewall, I would not go on an adventure ride with tubless rims. Never :freaky
    #21
  2. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    a plug kit is 4 minutes of 'work' if/when a nail or thorn punctures the tire...

    vs

    full wheel removal, then tube removal, then new tube ($20), then tire seat, hand pump, and reinstall the wheel again.

    if you're like me, 4-5 minutes with a plug kit beats 30 minutes of "where the hell did that washer go ?!"


    (i'll be running this setup fall of this year. i hope.
    #22
  3. Platypus-3in1

    Platypus-3in1 Fluid Journey

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    The advantages transformed the automotive tire industry on a global scale. (Not to long ago they were all tube)


    Cons .... With an inner tube you get all of this:

    Extra Weight Causing ... extra heat by more mass
    Extra Weight Causing ... even more weight added to balance the wheel
    Extra Weight Causing ... loss of over all breaking efficiency
    Extra Weight Causing ... characteristic changes of tire at high speeds
    Extra Weight Causing ... Faster wear on tire tread due to added heat

    More Flats By ... pinches (during installation or later by hitting a pot hole)
    More Flats By ... valve stem attachment point failure (rust)

    Water gets inside the wheel at the valve stem
    Tires slip on rim at high torque (balance lost)
    If you are not mechanically inclined you PAY for every flat
    Add extra weight to bike with spare tube, tire irons and patch kit


    Pros ..... Fixed all of the above! ...:clap

    Plus

    When you get a flat ... Don’t take the wheel off of the bike, don’t take the tire off of the wheel, don’t repair a tube, don’t spend 45 minutes +/- of your buddies riding time waiting on you ......... With a tubeless tire just plug it and go ... :D

    Personally I have gone on many miles of asphalt, dirt and single track with a system very much like this one. Factory rims and I really, really liked it ... At first I was very mindful of doing something unconventional and not being able to take my mind off of the fact that I didn't have a tube in there but after taking some pretty tough poundings I began to trust it. Before long it became (to me) the best aftermarket item on my bike.

    I agree with you on the bent rim and sliced tire ... That could be a day ender with a tubeless ..... In that case (with both) I think I would have to pound the rim back as best I could then zip tie the tire to the rim (through the spokes [around the tire and the rim] between the knobs) in multiple places and slow ride out of there.
    #23
  4. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    Mh... most of the cons you mention are no cons in real world long distance driving. But this you know, who cares about heat and balancing? I mean that is from a physical standpoint a con, but in reality? Breaking performance? Come on...:D

    Even in my EXC (and also in my F8GS) I use tubes... but thats another story....

    I could understand if you are just on a Saturday ride with buddies but somwhere out in the sticks 200mls from the next village I would never use tubeless tires.

    However, the good thing is, we can choose what we use, so no real problem there. I was just curious what's the idea behind :freaky
    #24
  5. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    sweet. that video was passed around about a year ago but no one could find a supplier in the US at the time.
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  6. Platypus-3in1

    Platypus-3in1 Fluid Journey

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    Yea ... No Problem! I was searching the answer of "whats the advantage of a tubeless tire" ... What, if "any" redeemable qualities could there possibly be to consider going tubeless? And I was tickled with myself to have found all that I did ...:D

    In the real world what I like about it is not the heat loss, weight reduction or balancing ... I could care less about that!

    The two things that are practical to me in the real world is the money savings and not carrying extra tubes, tire irons and patching kits.

    For me tubeless = No more $65.00 set of tuff tubes every time I buy a new set of tires (I pinched the last rear tube twice trying to force the Kenda Big Block on ... After remounting it more than once I gave up and took it to the dealer ... I think they charged me $60+ ... Lesson learned, no more Kenda BB's with tubes) ...

    You are right ... all the little things I mentioned don't matter! But they do sound more positive than negative ... yes?
    #26
  7. Alleycatdad

    Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties!

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    This'll come as no surprise to anyone here, but I'm confused.

    I've seen the advantages of tubeless tires on motorcycles specifically mention that tubeless tires tend not to catastrophically fail like tubed tires, and deflation from a puncture with a tubeless characterized as slower and more controlled than that with a tubed tire, which is why tubed tires for the street should have a safety bead or beadlock, while none is required for tubeless tires.

    But, in this thread there are statements that are the opposite of this, that because there is no safety bead on the 990 front that a tubeless conversion may be less safe than a tubed tire.

    Due to the potential for rim damage in the front I'd be less than inclined to run this conversion in the front anyway, but the disparity of the two positions intrigues me. Who's right? Is anyone? If the "conventional wisdom" that tubed tires need a satey bead or beadlock on the street is correct, why don't we have either on the adventures?

    I've never noticed a "safety bead" on any motorcycle wheel that comes stock tubeless, but I don't typically change those myself, either.

    Steve
    #27
  8. spafxer

    spafxer Long timer

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    I just went out to my supply of favorite tires in the garage...

    Dunlop 606 21" Tube Type

    Dunlop 908 18" Tube Type

    Heidenau K60 18" Tubeless :clap


    I know this has been discussed. My understanding is a Tube Type tire may not hold air as well.. Good enough for me. Don't do it.

    Also, I would go tubeless on the rear for all the reasons mentioned, EXCEPT I would still carry a tube just in case I damage the rim.. It is considered acceptable to use a 21" tube in an 18" wheel to get you home.



    .
    #28
  9. Platypus-3in1

    Platypus-3in1 Fluid Journey

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    Good Question!

    When i was considering doing a conversion that was something I wanted to know as well.

    Isn’t the safety bead an added selling point for buying their rim? I think I read once that it was extra safety in the case of a flat at interstate speeds that will aid in keeping the tire from coming out of the rim and causing you to crash NOW ... Giving the added chance to slow the bike to a stop in a somewhat controlled warble?

    I first went with this system (front & back) on my KLR650 ... Factory pressed metal rims ... No safety beads ... I’ve worn out both tubeless rated tires and non tubeless rated tires with some nice knobs.

    What surprised me the most was checking the air before each ride ... Both tubeless and non-tubeless rated tires held air better than any tube I’ve ever had in there. After a month I was consistently about a pound low but I figured that was from me loosing air checking it so much.
    #29
  10. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    Another thing I learned:

    After the "Cyborg" wheel seal on the rear stock wheel I mounted up a 908. Others have done this, and it appears to work just fine because of the stiff sidewall, even though it is designated as a "tubed" type tire. I rode all last summer on that bad boy, spitting rocks and sliding around three or more states including the Montana 1000 ride (1000 miles off-pavement). The sealing job on the spoke nipples held air the whole time, BUT...

    By the end the 908 was cut up, I assume by rocks and such (and I wear my tires down FAR, get my damn money's worth! :deal), the carcass was "weeping" air. No big puncture or anything, but at least a dozen teeny pores that were revealed by soapy water. There were too many to be worth while to plug (and the tire was well toasted anyway), and they sure were teeny... To make 500 miles to my next stop I had to air up several times. So my conclusion is that for the way I ride the TIRE is not up to the task, and from what I gather the 908 is about as tough as they come for our big beasties... Had I been running tubes I would've happily shredded another couple hundred miles, pavement or dirt and been blissfully ignorant.

    It was nice while it lasted! I didn't even get to use my plug kit...:lol3 I decided right then that it's tubes for me for off-road. Yes it's a pain, but they are old-school, proven, known, abundant, relatively cheap, etc... And I'm getting my tire changing procedure down, but it still realistically takes 45 min.

    Now, for my STREET wheels it's a diff story! This tape stuff might be the ballz for the 19/17s. Plugs are easy, the tires are made for it, and AAA is never far away on the paved road.
    #30
  11. stevodadevo

    stevodadevo What happened?

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    On the Tubliss system, what happens when you puncture the inner high pressure tube in the middle of nowhere? Can it be patched on the trail?
    #31
  12. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

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    I'll throw my 2 pesos in on this one, as if anyone really cares. :lol3

    I ran a sealed rear Excel from Woody for about 40,000 miles or so. Here is what I found.

    Advantages:

    1. Awesome when you pick up a nail, 5 minute repair vs. a 30 minute repair. Since I rarely pinch a rear UHD tube on the 990 this saved me quite a bit of time and effort as I picked up 9 nails in a 45,000 mile Americas trip.

    2. Only need to carry one light weight rear tube just in case you cut a sidewall or run over something that cuts a hole larger than a plug can fix. Even one of your front tubes will work for this purpose.

    Disadvantages:

    1. I had to run higher pressure off pavement and off road to mitigate rim dings, which of course results in poorer traction.

    2. I sliced a sidewall on two different 150 X 18 Tubeless Scorpions in the rocks where I had to put in a tube. Either of these sidewall dings would not have leaked air had a tube been in place.

    3. Reduced tire life. Even the tubeless 150 Scorpion will start to leak air once the lugs get down about 1/8 inch towards the end of its useful life. I reckon what happens is that as the lugs get smaller, the area between the lugs takes deeper hits from sharp rocks, which causes slow leaking at numerous points on the tire. I figured that I would remedy this by just using some fix a flat. The fix a flat worked well until it ate through the material that was used to seal the spoke nipples. From then on, I had to run a tube.


    Now, a bit about tubeless type tires vs. tube type tires on a sealed rim.

    I ran the 150 Scorpion, which is a tubless tire. I also ran the 140 Scorpion which is tube type. I could tell no difference in the 140's ability to hold air without a tube.

    I also ran a tube type MT-21, MT-60, and Dunlop 908 on the tubeless rim. Each of these tires held air as well as the 150 tubeless Scorpion.

    FWIW, I would never consider running a tubeless front on the 990 if you go off the pavement.

    Case in point with this big hit I took in the video.


    <iframe src="http://api.smugmug.com/services/embed/949748831_ML2Ma?width=640&height=362" frameborder="0" height="362" scrolling="no" width="640"></iframe>


    IMO, its a toss up whether to run a tubeless rear or not. But, it did save me a lot of time when I picked up a nail. I was riding about 50/50 pavement vs. dirt on this trip. If I am riding almost exclusively off-pavement, I'll take the tube every time.
    #32
  13. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    Yep agree, assuming you ride to Magadan or somewhere else in the nowhere, would you have a tube with you? Just if the worst happened? if yes, you would have tire irons with you as well. What am try'en to say is: depends on what you have planned :D

    Kenda and Heidenau I know. And yes me too has pinched the darn tube once. But only once *lol*

    Sure :thumb
    #33
  14. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    @ Crashmaster: I like your way of seeing it :thumb

    :huh ouch big hit :eek1
    #34
  15. Platypus-3in1

    Platypus-3in1 Fluid Journey

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    I’ve seen your RR’s. That report holds weight!

    You shredded a 908 and the tubeless set-up cost you about 200 miles out of a tire.

    I’m good with that!
    #35
  16. Platypus-3in1

    Platypus-3in1 Fluid Journey

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    +1
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  17. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

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    At least there was a tire shop "conveniently located" just past the rocky washout. :lol3 Didnt flat out though, just dinged the living hell out of the rim. I almost cleared it, but saw it too late to loft the front wheel with enough authority. This is just one small example of why you shouldn't ride half asleep on seemingly good pavement in South America, and why I will never run a tubeless front on the 990. :lol3
    #37
  18. pfdskipper

    pfdskipper Westside Trash

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    Crashy,


    Did you just say: "I'll take the tube every time" ?:eek1

    But seriously, cool flashback to that great ride. Bolivia, si?
    #38
  19. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

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    :lol3
    :lol3 :lol3 :lol3 Maybe I should re-phrase that. :roflHow about I'll take a tube in the tire every time. Yeah, that sounds better. :rofl

    That little event was in Peru. Glad to have had the WP suspension gods looking after me on that one, since I was just droning along thinking about chicas and beer instead of paying attention.
    #39
  20. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    Dreaming about riding motorcycles in some exotic place while riding a motorcycle in some exotic place again? I do that sometimes too... :freaky

    Oh, and love the profile notes there, Crash!

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wAg1r6zw7Bg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #40