Has riding been ruined?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by adrianbrewster, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. TheProphet

    TheProphet Retired; Living the Dream

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Oddometer:
    6,188
    Location:
    NW Illinois, Driftless Zone
    So therefore we need to raise more deer on "Deer Farms"?:hmmmmm

    In cases where WE - humans - took over land areas formerly used by certain animal species, we then are the "Invasive Species", not the former tenants.
    Rockred, Tallbastid and CaptCapsize like this.
  2. Desce

    Desce Finished Pig

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Oddometer:
    788
    Location:
    NW WDC
    Simply explaining to you that subrban sprawl does not limit deer populations. It explodes them.
    CRP6001 likes this.
  3. TheProphet

    TheProphet Retired; Living the Dream

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Oddometer:
    6,188
    Location:
    NW Illinois, Driftless Zone
    That makes zero sense. Where are you getting this information from? Please attach links of data and research, etc.

    Try again.
  4. Desce

    Desce Finished Pig

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Oddometer:
    788
    Location:
    NW WDC
    Unsubscribe .
  5. TheProphet

    TheProphet Retired; Living the Dream

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Oddometer:
    6,188
    Location:
    NW Illinois, Driftless Zone
    You unwittingly provided a link to prove out what I said was totally correct. Thanks for posting.

    It just takes some logic, common sense, and the ability to root cause troubleshoot.

    • Was there a Deer overpopulation issue prior to the arrival of European man in the USA? Why not?
    • In US history, was there ever a time when deer were almost hunted to extinction? Why? When? How was it resolved?
    • Who eliminated or decreased the predators of Deer? (Coyotes, wolves, bear, etc.) Was it the Deer? Or was it Man?
    • As your posted link explains, the natural habitat of Deer was definitely altered, and reduced by man.

    Those being the actual facts, man is responsible for the current overpopulation of Deer by means of reducing their habitat size, eliminating it's natural predators, and providing a non-natural food source through farm crops and ornamental landscaping of the natural habitat that was reduced in size by the introduction of farming, and urban / suburban sprawl.

    If you consider that say 100 deer are grazing and foraging around say 20 square miles of natural forest habitat. Now reduced that natural forest habitat by 70%, and you have more deer per square mile trying to feed at the same rate, hence "Overpopulation", a misnomer. Who created this situation? The Deer? Or did man tampering with nature create this reduction oin living space? Think it through.

    "Deer Farms" are described as a possible two different things:

    One is a farm that breeds deer for commercial slaughter and human consumption. These farms introduce fattening feed, and non-natural feed ingredients that genetically alter the size (Larger) and features (Antlers, racks, etc.) for both yield, and sale to collectors.

    The other is an enclosed, fenced in area that breeds and grows Deer for easier enclosed area hunting.

    Neither have any impact on the population growth of deer outside of these farms, although some bred-for-human consumption deer escape, and interbreed with natural deer, introducing these genetic alterations to wildlife. In the case of hunting enclosures, they more likely contribute to less harvesting of Deer outside of these enclosed areas, so they might be seen as contributing to the imbalance of wild deer to available habitat.

    These are easily understood, actual facts, thanks.:-)

    Granted, Deer in the road are a hazard, but studying their habits and being aware of where and when they are active, and slowing down when you are riding in a deer populated area, will help reduce this danger.

    Here are at least ten things more worrisome:

    https://rideapart.com/articles/10-common-motorcycle-accidents-and-how-to-avoid-them

    Now, back to post #1, and the OP's worries, distracted drivers are likely a much worse danger than deer, as deer usually do not text nor respond to emails at 80 MPH. We likely have an equal chance of changing either - Deer OR bad drivers.

    That said, ride safe, and always be aware of your surroundings and situation.

    Have fun! :ricky.....:thumb
  6. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2,643
    Location:
    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    The deer population in Wisconsin is still significant even with urban sprawl and reduced habitat, and increased number of wolves in Wisconsin. All I know is I have no trouble seeing deer on a daily basis as I drive/ride around east central Wisconsin.

    That web link for the 10 Most Common Cycle Crashes is interesting. The first four on the list, to me, is largely controlled by the rider, and by the rider not riding into trouble to begin with. I have long argued that a large percentage of cycle crashes are caused by the rider creating the chain of events connecting into a crash. In my 44 years of riding, even as a newbie when I was 15, I have never encountered the classic "left turner" crash. Same for the "car taking my lane" crash. Not bragging, just facts. I have encountered four crashes in my riding career, all four were my fault alone, on my bike alone, not involving another vehicle.
  7. appliance57

    appliance57 Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Oddometer:
    1,746
    Location:
    Boston
    I think there's an equilibrium with less drunk drivers balanced by more distracted drivers. Think it through, ride focused, find the good roads - I love it. Based on stats, as a returning older rider on a powerful bike, riding back country roads - I'm already dead - the rest is cream.
  8. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Scottsdale

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,893
    Location:
    Scottsdale Arizona
    I am 69 and have been riding for decades. I even raced motocross for several years and of course, got hurt racing (as everybody does). But I feel your concern. I am not sure how much longer I will ride. My greatest fear is a left turner trying to make the gap before I get there. So, while I do local riding, my greatest pleasures are on the open road. Most of my riding in terms of miles are long distance. For some reason that type of riding doesn't yet inject me with car fear. But even saying that, I am now so hyper vigilant I am not so sure it is fun!
  9. ArtCuisin

    ArtCuisin Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2011
    Oddometer:
    44
    CaptCapsize likes this.
  10. TS888

    TS888 Deer dodger

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    601
    Location:
    White Salmon WA
    Far fewer distracted idiots staring at mobile phones and the GPS screen once you leave the pavement. Literally zero soccer moms sucking down a Starbucks and staring at their kids in the rear-view. Macho micro-penis lifted pickup drivers? Nope, they don't want to get their "rig" dirty. Semis with peeling recaps? Not common on forest service roads.

    If I didn't live 20 minutes from near wilderness, I would shamelessly load my junk on a trailer and haul it until I got there. 99% of the people I encounter off the pavement are polite and paying attention. The tiny few who are being stupid usually stay with their brethren in the OHV parks so they can video each other being stupid and post it on Instafool.

    I moved from a road bike to an ADV bike specifically so I could spend less time on pavement. My next move will probably be to a smaller dual sport so I can get deeper off road with less effort, and a trailer so I can haul it when the place I want to be is not accessible by an off pavement route or at least rural 2 lane.

    Yes, I am embracing my evolution to grumpy old man. It was a pretty short trip from grumpy middle age man, a state I achieved after perfecting grumpy young man.
  11. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Oddometer:
    2,663
    Location:
    Western Montana
    Has riding been ruined?

    No. Traffic has gone insane. It's insane by car, by cycle, by pedal-cycle...on FOOT.

    In my little mountain town, filled up with government employees, university professors and educrats, and Medical Marijuana...there is a LOT of seemingly-needless, obviously-inattentive; apparently stuporous, I suspect, drug-compromised...idiotic driving.

    It is dangerous. MORE dangerous, is that it is INFURIATING. Angry people, feeding deranged fantasies about shooting every occupant in that bro-dozer, DEAD...that's more dangerous to me than even the stupid moves, or the deliberate black soot cloud, laid down by the imbecile.

    But that is the danger of being on roads or sidewalks in this town. Even walking is a risk...I power-walk an hour a day; this time of year I do it outside, obviously...and I swear to God, these doped-up lunatics just turn at RANDOM. I can't step off a curb onto a crosswalk, not even on a dead-end side street, without some jag-off nipping my heels.

    You deal with it, or you move. I have to travel, in the course of my day; and part of my day, and some days, I choose to travel by cycle.

    It may kill me. I've been hit, lightly, twice in three years. But everybody's gotta die of something...
    Drop_Center likes this.
  12. Drop_Center

    Drop_Center Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,294
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    The only thing ruining riding for me is the sheer volume of people on the roads.
  13. William Wolfen

    William Wolfen Dirt Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Oddometer:
    1,532
    Location:
    Cypress, TX
    That's largely my experience on the unpaved county roads here too. I only recently encountered an exception. I was leading a rude a few weeks back on one of my usual routes and encountered a Ford Raptor drifting the curve towards my at probably 60mph. I opted to go for the shoulder and run off the side if the road a like. Far safer than arguing space with a guy just barely in control. I think it scared him more than it scared me. The guys further back in my group said he had slowed down.
  14. Tor

    Tor Native Viking

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,918
    Location:
    Pee Dee of South Carolina
    Don’t let your fear of what could happen make nothing happen.
    CaptCapsize likes this.
  15. White mt guy

    White mt guy Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Oddometer:
    1,465
    Location:
    northeast
    Rigjt on !!! And very well stated. Holy shit, motorcycles are dangerous, they always have been. If it's to scary for you then just stop doing it. But, for fucks sakes it realy hasn't changed. The seventies had big ass cars with shit brakes, the eighties had left over seventies cars plus lots of drunk drivers, the nineties had soccer moms in shit handling vans on anti depressants, etc, etc. What tge fuck happened to men and motorcycles? Pussies. If your to scared just stop,dam it just stop riding and for the love of motorcycling stop whining and find a safe place.
  16. CaptCapsize

    CaptCapsize Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Oddometer:
    586
    Location:
    Corrales, New Mexico
    I would rather deal with a drunk driver than someone texting.
    I have seem many drunks driving; NM seems to have more than it share. They consistently drive bad, and weave and wander. This makes them a little easier to spot.

    A jerk on a cell phone will drive completely normal, until a text requires an immediate response. All of a sudden they are all over the road. Once the text is sent they get back in their lane and drive normally.
    It is the sudden random irrational behaviors that scare me the most.

    Also it is why I prefer to ride where the car cannot go...off road.
    Last week I had about 800 miles in Utah of mostly dirt...awesome!
  17. Offcenter

    Offcenter On The Road Again!

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    758
    Location:
    Northern New Jersey
    At least a drunk is ATTEMPTING to pay attention to the road.
    The jerk on the cell phone isn't even LOOKING at the road!!
  18. Turkeycreek

    Turkeycreek Gringo Viejo

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Oddometer:
    2,364
    Location:
    Banámichi, Sonora, Mexico
    A bit late to the party. I have lived full time in rural northern Mexico for over 10 years. I occasionally ride to cities here in Mexico and in the southwest US and Colorado.
    I always ride as if I'm invisible. My theory is the guy that's going to hit you is the same guy who hits a fire truck running with lights and sirens. Like so many others, you develop a 6th sense by reading driver behavior.
    I am planning a month long ride in the US of about 7500 miles. Some urban, some wide open spaces. It will be a combination of slab, back roads and city streets. I am in full control here in Mexico. I know the hazards here; drunks, unsafe cars with no lights, untrained drivers, bad roads, cows, horses and wildlife. I am nervous about distracted drivers but as much about the unchecked aggression of US drivers. I'm no sissy, I grew up driving the Long Island Expressway. But it's a concern.
    I started riding in my mid 20's, too a break when the kids came along but always thought about riding, dreamed about it. I've been back for 16 years now. I'm 68 and plan to ride until I can't . I don't know if this makes sense but I took the opportunity to express what I'm feeling.
  19. Süsser Tod

    Süsser Tod Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,605
    Location:
    Mexico City, Mexico
    Riding in the US always scares out of me... Because it is way, WAY safer than my usual riding environment in Mexico.

    What really creeps me out is how everybody just expects the rest of the people to pay attention and drive by the rules. Here I've learnt that doing that is basically trusting others with my own life, and that is just not right. For the most part I can accelerate faster than everybody else, I have scape routes that are not possible for a car, and if someone else screws up its me who will end up in the hospital; so I just take responsibility for keeping myself safe out there.

    Always assume you're invisible and ride like you are; when you need to be seen then make sure you're seen. Assuming other people around you are aware of you is the fastest way to get to the hospital.