HD 10mm 12pt Caliper Bolts - Spline Sockets?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by HapHazard, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,393
    Location:
    Central CT
    I've been making progress (slow & unsteady, as usual) with the 2000 Softail Standard.
    The fork boots are both split(:huh), and I need to remove the caliper so I can drop the left fork leg.
    HD affixes the caliper with dicey looking 10mm 12 point bolts. All my 10mm sockets are 6 point, and my 10mm wrenches are short and don't give me nearly the leverage to loosen the bolts (even using the scarey "larger wrench looped over the end" trick) which are supposedly torqued to 38 ft lbs (and frozen into the aluminum caliper).
    So I need to get a 12 point metric socket. Our Asian friends have a set of conventional 12 point "Pittsburg Pro" sockets, and these "spline sockets" which they say work on 4, 6, and 12 point fasteners and "deliver more torque than standard sockets".

    http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-3-8-eighth-inch-metric-spline-socket-set-96362.html

    Any experience/recommendations/tips on loosening these bolts that seem hellishly tight?:ear

    Thanx!
    #1
  2. D.T.

    D.T. Difficult but useful

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    12,283
    Location:
    Moneyapolis, MN
    :dunno

    Not sure if it's a special bolt or just a 12 PT. Did you try a stardard 10mm 12 PT socket? Good excuse to buy more tools for the shop I'd say.

    I just bought a 12 pt eight mm socket for my valve adjusment on the Vstrom. It's easier to tighten and loosen in tight spots where you can't move the wrench much.
    #2
  3. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    6,637
    Location:
    the hills
    Cheap 10MM 12PT socket,a heat gun and penetrating oil with a large dose of patience. If you screw up the mounting bolts it will get very ugly fast.
    #3
  4. spafxer

    spafxer Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,674
    #4
  5. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Oddometer:
    6,257
    Location:
    Dearborn, MI
    12 point and spline drive heads are used on many ultra high tensile strength fasteners because they are stronger and more secure when torquing to the high values they require.
    #5
  6. bikeridermark

    bikeridermark Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,428
    Location:
    Southern Ohio
    Sears should have it. I bought the one to remove the brake pads there.
    #6
  7. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,393
    Location:
    Central CT
    The gen-yoo-wine HD shop manual (as well as anotherguy) says they are 10mm 12 point. This is them:

    [​IMG]

    I DID find a cheap 10mm socket - part of the plastic boxed metric socket set I bought in 1969 with my paperboy money. It's as toothless as a 20 year old cat.:lol3 I saw the spline sockets and wondered if they'd do better than a 12 point - the Internets seem to disagree if they are wonderful or worse than this:

    [​IMG]

    Anotherguy, where do I apply the heat gun - the body of the caliper? I was thinking of heating the head of the bolt with my small butane torch, then waiting and hitting the head with a shot of freon spray to shrink it.
    #7
  8. col klink

    col klink the str8n'r

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    87
    Location:
    North Ga.
    Yep, as stated above all you need is a decent 12pt 10mm socket, and leverage.
    It is definitely not an external torx.
    Twist on it! They'll pop loose.
    #8
  9. spafxer

    spafxer Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,674
    Yep, that's a 12 point bolt head... I forgot E Torx only have 6 points.

    and you've got a major rust problem going on there. Look at the brake line banjo bolt in the backround!

    Looks like that bike's been at the beach...:cry



    .
    #9
  10. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,393
    Location:
    Central CT
    Oh no - not the beach, it was in a leaky barn, with actual cows, for like 8 years. Dirt, hay, rust and motor frozen.:cry

    I'll post some before (and hopefully after) pics when I get closer to done.
    #10
  11. speedracertdi

    speedracertdi Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Oddometer:
    985
    Location:
    Hollywood, FL
    I have a craftsman 12pt, 10mm i keep just for this bolt. Like others have said, thats all you need.
    #11
  12. oldxr

    oldxr Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,155
    Location:
    central komifornia
    Snap-on makes some heavy duty black impact gun sockets for 10mm 12 point.Sometimes you have to go for the good stuff.I have been a mechanic for 30 years and I dont buy tools at harbor freight.
    #12
  13. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    6,637
    Location:
    the hills
    You got it-apply heat to the caliper body where the bolt is. But hit it with the penetrating oil first and let it soak. It'll come loose so fast and hard it'll click the ratchet to the opposite direction.
    #13
  14. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Oddometer:
    6,257
    Location:
    Dearborn, MI
    DO NOT use that socket. It's junk, and you'll bugger up the bolt head when it strips. Go buy a brand new one before you even try.
    #14
  15. henrymartin

    henrymartin Mr. Tourguide

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,725
    Location:
    South of the Great North Woods
    Having broken my fair share of bolts over the years, may I chime in?

    First, you may want to consider an impact gun (a small, electric one from Sears works wonders, delivering claimed 700 inch pounds - yeah, it doesn't but they can dream it does). I use it all the time now on stubborn bolts and screws, especially old, seized Phillips head stuff.
    What you have is old steel bolts rusted (likely) in the aluminum of the caliper. Not the best combo, but a good one for a disaster. I would apply PB Blaster, let soak in, then try to turn the bolts by TIGHTENING them a fraction of a turn. If it moves, then back it out. If not, then try the impact driver. The impacts and twisting works wonders on breaking the bond between two metals. If you don;t have one, use PB and heat or hit it with a hammer a few times (not hard enough to deform the bolt heads). It will break the bond.

    Good luck. I tend to work on bikes that sat for 20+ years in yards, so this is what I deal with more often than I'd like to.

    If you end up snapping a bolt, forget about screw extractors - you break one of those and you have a major headache on your hands. Instead, get some left turn drill bits and try to drill it out. More often then not, the heat from the drilling loosens the bolts and removes them. But, make sure you have a nice centered hole in case you have to drill it out completely without damaging threads.

    Patience and slow is the key here. Good luck.
    #15
  16. D.T.

    D.T. Difficult but useful

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    12,283
    Location:
    Moneyapolis, MN
    Not out yet?? :huh

    Geez, what's the hold up?? :D

    Whack the bolt head with a hammer a few times too before you start. Vice grip if head strips. Metric bolts on a HD??
    #16
  17. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,393
    Location:
    Central CT
    I was just amused at the quality of the ONLY 10mm 12pt socket and wanted to share - I must have eight 6 pointers!

    OKAY! OKAY! (didn't you see the "slow & unsteady" description of my progress?)

    I'm new with HDs, to me they're kinda like GM cars from the 80's - I'm never quite sure which kind of fastener will turn up.

    Went to the maul this AM with a 10mm bolt (wanted to get the tightest fitting socket in stock) and bought this:

    [​IMG]

    I followed everyone's advice - I sprayed Kroil on the back of the bolts and let it soak, I warmed the caliper with my heat gun, I tapped the bolt heads with a hammer, and applied my Ingersol-Rand impact in a counter-clockwise direction and wah-la!

    [​IMG]

    They both shot out like shit from a goose! And there was almost zero corrosion (:huh). No distortion on the bolt heads, so I can use 'em again.

    Who's better than you guys?
    Nobody!
    Thanx to all!
    #17
  18. D.T.

    D.T. Difficult but useful

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    12,283
    Location:
    Moneyapolis, MN
    Damn, you would have lost the race if this shit takes this long...:lol3

    I suppose you didn't get any anti seize either...:fpalm
    #18
  19. Twilight Error

    Twilight Error Going nowhere slowly

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Oddometer:
    22,813
    Location:
    The Submarine Mines
    Generally speaking, avoid using chrome sockets and extensions with impact tools. They're very hard and can shatter under the loads an impact wrench can impart. Impact sockets and extensions have a higher yield strength than their chrome cousins and can handle the abuse better. You were likely never in any danger of that with this job, you stated the bolts spun right out without drama. 12pt impact sockets are out there, but you've got to seek them out.
    #19
  20. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,393
    Location:
    Central CT
    I know better than to race anybody.:lol3
    I have more anti seize than Napa does - I even put it on my breakfast cereal.:D

    The Craftspeople stock had all kinds of bizarre sockets (even pass-thru spline looking things with a pass-thru ratchet) but no 12 pt impacts.

    The right fork tube pulled out of the triple clamp with little trouble, the left is a pain in the ballz. I hit it top & bottom with Kroil, tapped a small chisel in the bottom of the lower clamp slot and a pry bar in the top of the slot (with Mrs Hazard applying 1 womanpower), even put my heat gun and put a spacer and hit it with my air impact hammer (:eek1) on it, and the tube still won't come out. I might have to call in the Marines (my neighbor who is a large, fearless diesel mechanic).

    I guess that it's rusted into the clamp, seeing as there was no corrosion on the caliper bolts, there has to be rust someplace annoying.
    #20