Help best battery for a cold 950ser ?

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by veetwo _tls, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    Whats the best battery for the KTM 950 SER for cold weather cranking ?

    i'm using the OEM from 07 cold mornings at 4am 3 cranks it's dead. when the biks home it's always on slow trickle charge.

    running:
    FCR's no choke & no TPS
    bikes running phillips 2 x 55w hid 6000k (switched off at start up)






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    #1
  2. jmklint

    jmklint Adventurer

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    Antigravity YTZ10S-12

    The Antigravity YTZ10S-12 is the Hi-Power Direct Replacement for the Lead/Acid version of the YTZ10S/YTZ12S/YTZ14S/YTX9. Our Hi-Power Lithium version produces much more power than the Lead/Acid version offering much better motor turn-over and starting, yet is significantly lighter. This battery size is used in many Sportbikes.

    360 CCA
    12 Amp Hours (PbEq)
    6.0″ Long x 3.5″ Wide x 3.75″ Tall
    2.5 lbs
    Direct OEM Replacement for YTZ10/YTZ12/YTZ14/YTX9
    For motors up to 1300cc


    i have these batteries in all of my motorcycles and there is nothing even close. I had a shorai for a short time but it lost all of cold weather cranking ability unless i kept it on a tender daily. I also a have a big dog custom chopper with a 117" motor and a HID headlight. This combination has proved too much for any other battery that i have tried until I was pointed in the direction of the Antigravity line. They have a ton of power, great warranty and they are light.
    #2
  3. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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  4. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    KTM 950 Superenduro RalleRaid fairing.

    I'm running direct off the +

    GPS (switched via toggle)

    2 x philips 55W 6000K HID's via marine toggle switches.


    i bought the antigravity but now got this problem ?


    yesterday i installed the Antigravity lithium battery & the bike fired up first hit on the starter :-) 11:50pm rode to work 6klm with 1 HID on.
    but this morning at 4:30am cold start about 5 Celcius - The battery would not start it & eventually had to jump start it of a mates 4wd.
    i then left work & had 1 HID on & got about 2 klm & herd a pop/crack sound like a back fire & then the light went out. i switched the other HID on & with in 20 sec same again then pulled up then bike ran bad like dying from lack of fuel poor idle & kept tweaking the throttle to keep it running until it stalled. turned key off & back on the light came on so turned the light off. tried to restart. Dead flat..

    replaced with the OEM lead battery & 6am i rode to my second job (light on) with no problem & back home.

    any idea what the problem with the lithium would be ?









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  5. David37

    David37 Been here awhile

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    Don't waste your $$ on the Braille, it only lasted two years on my 950
    SE and then died. I'm running a Ballistic battery now and it starts my bike up without any problems.
    #5
  6. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    i bought the antigravity but now got this problem ?


    yesterday i installed the Antigravity lithium battery & the bike fired up first hit on the starter :-) 11:50pm rode to work 6klm with 1 HID on.
    but this morning at 4:30am cold start about 5 Celcius - The battery would not start it & eventually had to jump start it of a mates 4wd.
    i then left work & had 1 HID on & got about 2 klm & herd a pop/crack sound like a back fire & then the light went out. i switched the other HID on & with in 20 sec same again then pulled up then bike ran bad like dying from lack of fuel poor idle & kept tweaking the throttle to keep it running until it stalled. turned key off & back on the light came on so turned the light off. tried to restart. Dead flat..

    replaced with the OEM lead battery & 6am i rode to my second job (light on) with no problem & back home.

    any idea what the problem with the luthium would be ?




    10:15pm about to go to work 1 with SFA sleep out of 31 hrs had only 4 hrs sleep & stressed with a bike unreliable again
    #6
  7. Boatman

    Boatman Membership has it's privileges ;-)

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    First,,,, have you checked to see that your voltage regulator is putting out the correct voltage?

    Many people have had the voltage regulator go bad which ends up pumping the battery with excessive voltage (17-18volts) and cooking the battery. I would check this before going any further.

    Second,,, the lithium batteries are known to have issues starting in cold conditions. And repeatedly trying to start the bike when the battery won't crank the engine damages them.

    Just guessing here,,,,, but I think you damaged the battery trying to start the bike when cold. Possibly at the same time the voltage regulator is bad and the pop you heard was the battery from being overcharged. Like I said,,, just a guess.

    You should post in this thread as he seems to know batteries very well.
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757934&page=27
    #7
  8. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    can someone please post the link on how to test the voltage regulator .
    i know i read it but dam if i can find it now.
    #8
  9. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    holy smokes!

    a basic test to see if your charging system is working ... take a known to be good meter like Fluke 87V. a cheapie is fine if it's been checked against a known to be good meter.

    measured at battery with engine running at mid-range ... 13.8v to 14.2v is within normal range. if your reading at battery is slightly less than with nothing on. for a lead acid battery 12.85v at rest indicates a fully charged battery.

    what is the resting voltage for your battery? (resting voltage is measured after battery sits overnight)

    for LiFePO4 .. fully charged is 14.6v .. but operating range is 13.3v to about 12.85v (20% remaining) LiFePO4 operate within a very narrow voltage range.

    mfg PB/EQ ratings are full of it ... they all do it .. it's a marketing thing. 4x 26650 LiFePO4 cells = 2.3AH actual battery. 8cell = 4.6AH .. 12cell = 6.9AH

    my recommendation is to stay with AGM for extreme cold weather starts... unless you are ready to go with the largest LiFePO4 battery you can stuff into your battery holder.
    #9
  10. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    i been having 2 x slow trickle chargers going on the OEM battery when the bike is home.


    bike at idle i'm getting 14.63V to 15.9V at the battery

    resting voltage need to check later 12 midday now.just got home on the bike - i'll check before i go to work (i work 12pm to 5am & at 8am to 11:30am)




    ---------------------
    antigravity lithium is reading - resting voltage 13.11V








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    #10
  11. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    that's way high .. certain bikes will actually charge at higher voltage at idle. but yours is charging at too high a rate and will severely overcharge agm and LiFePO4 both. 15.9v is way too high.

    what's the voltage at mid-engine rpm? too high will severely overcharge your LiFePO4 battery and could cause internal pressure safeties on cylindrical cells to pop.

    here's a chart to show LiFePO4 charge state voltage

    [​IMG]
    #11
  12. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    that's way high .. certain bikes will actually charge at higher voltage at idle. but yours is charging at too high a rate and will severely overcharge agm and LiFePO4 both. 15.9v is way too high.

    what's the voltage at mid-engine rpm? 30v? if so that will severely overcharge your LiFePO4 battery and could cause internal pressure safeties on cylindrical cells to pop.



    -17V running at mid throttle
    #12
  13. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    Quote: Boatman
    Originally Posted by Deepc View Post
    2005.5 950A w/20,0000 miles.

    Two weeks ago, I went to start my bike only to find that my fancy Shorai battery was dead. Upon further inspection the battery had actually melted. I put in another battery, this time a Yuasa, and she began to hiss and boil. I'm guessing that my voltage regulator is shot. What is the best way to test the voltage regulator?

    I went through the EXACT scenario you describe above with
    my KTM 950 Super Enduro. But it's easy to fix and the fix
    will be much more reliable than the OEM regulator assuming you
    take my advice and buy the best regulator available, as detailed
    below. Don't be too pissed at the bike, it's not a huge expense to fix
    properly and it takes maybe an hour at most to do the installation
    of the new regulator. After you install the new part the bike WILL be
    more reliable than it was from the factory.


    I don't think you "need" to test the voltage regulator. It has
    already destroyed one battery and perhaps the second battery also.
    It's pretty obvious the regulator has failed and you need a new one.


    But if you insist, here is how to check the voltage regulator :

    1) set your voltmeter to DC volts and set the meter range to 20 volts
    or whichever meter setting is not less than 20 volts but closest to the 20
    volt range.


    2) Connect the positive test lead from your meter to the positive
    pole of the battery which is connected to the bike's wiring harness.

    3) Connect the negative test lead from the meter to the negative pole
    of the bike's battery.

    4) start the engine of the bike and watch the meter as you rev the
    engine up to at least 3,000 RPM. You will probably see voltage in excess
    of 16 volts. Any voltage in excess of 14.5 volts means the regulator is
    malfunctioning. Don't run the bike any longer than necessary to perform
    the test because overcharging will damage the battery. A Shorai will be
    destroyed much quicker than a lead-acid Yuasa battery but any battery
    will be destroyed by overcharging.


    It is ESSENTIAL you make certain all the wiring which is related to
    the battery and charging system is in good condition and is connected
    as it should be. If some ground wires are left disconnected damage
    can result. The failure in your bike is probably unrelated to the recent work
    you did but you do need to make sure the wiring is in correct order.

    =======================

    Now, how to fix it.

    You need a new voltage regulator. I suggest you avoid
    buying one from Rick's Motorsport Electrics because the
    regulator sold by that business is poor quality and there are
    better regulators available from different sources for the same
    money.


    The regulator you want is the Shindengen brand, which uses MOSFET
    circuitry which means it produces dramatically less waste heat
    during operation and is less likely to fail because of this circuitry.


    The supplier I prefer to deal with is this one :

    http://roadstercycle.com/

    Roadster Cycle is owned and run by one man, whose first name
    is Jack. He is extremely helpful and very knowledgeable and the
    kits he sells are quite nice and much better quality than the stuff
    sold by Rick's. If anyone tells you that Rick's sells top quality stuff they
    don't know what they are talking about and if you take their advice
    and buy that Rick's stuff you have only yourself to blame.


    You need to perform tests to verify whether the rest of
    your charging system is operating correctly, BEFORE you
    install a new regulator/rectifier. This includes testing the battery.
    You should charge the battery using a charger which is known
    to be working properly and check the battery after charging to
    see if it has been damaged or not.

    You can find the info on how to check the rest of your bike's charging
    system in the web page below. It is easy to check everything and takes
    maybe 20 minutes at most. All you need to perform the tests is an electrical
    multimeter which can work in AC volts, DC volts, and Ohms.


    http://www.ktm950.info/how/Electrica...g_systems.html
    #13
  14. Boatman

    Boatman Membership has it's privileges ;-)

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    Too high,,, the vr has failed. The pop you heard was the LiFePo battery venting as cy stated.
    #14
  15. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    i'll grab a VR kit on ebay from roadstercycle. Ken (Head2Wind) also recommended that i get this kit also.
    FH020AA Shindengen Universal upgrade kit with free PVC wiring sheathing
    Also Plug and Play kits available, I crimp solder, heat shrink everything you just connect 3 wires and your
    done. Email me for an auction for these special kits.


    So that means the LiFePo is stuffed :ear
    #15
  16. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    yup .. your LiFePO4 battery is probably toast :cry

    still try to charge it back up with any automotive charger that has a true float mode. your LiFePO4 battery could still be good. note the pop you heard could have came from voltage regulator instead. 17v is usually not high enough to cause a cylindrical LiFePO4 battery safety to pop.

    most dumb chargers will charge to about 14.2v-14.9v, then if it's got a float mode .. go down to 13.2v-13.6v range. stay away from automotive chargers that go over 14.6v.

    assuming you don't own a specific to LiFePO4 charger ... use any std automotive charger .. monitor charge voltage... when battery reaches 14.2-14.4v .. remove battery from charger. then allow battery to rest overnight, voltage should read between 14.4v to 13.8 range ... LiFePO4 operates within a very narrow voltage range of 13.3v to 12.85v ... very little power from 14.6v to 13.6v ...

    [​IMG]
    #16
  17. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    F*#@ about 6hrs old :cry
    #17
  18. Boatman

    Boatman Membership has it's privileges ;-)

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    You can relocate the VR on the left side of the airbox to keep it cooler. Maybe not neccesary with the better VR but a precaustion. Also when installing it you get very good connections. Poor connections will also cause them to heat up.
    #18
  19. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    :eek1 someone stole my airbox i don't have one :cry oh yeh i got FCR's :lol3 :D



    yeh i relocated my OEM 6mths ago to here.
    [​IMG]
    #19
  20. veetwo _tls

    veetwo _tls RENOVATIO:

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    what is the best battery to use for COLD weather starting -2C & up
    make etc
    #20