help- need procedure from BMW manual for clutch

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by rockhopper, May 12, 2010.

  1. rockhopper

    rockhopper Been here awhile

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    Hi all,

    I fried my clutch on the 800gs on a muddy Welsh hillside a while ago, anyway got a new clutch kit last week, and have now got round to fitting it, took the side cover to find the old one - not looking too bad, a bit of overheating but nothing too bad
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/zcOi_Rb43poQeLm4BCj9yQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S-hu5uMBqhI/AAAAAAAABxI/fA_3RS9-2oI/s800/P5097048.JPG" /></a>

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/P_IgCC54a5-YQt4cjmeo4w?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S-hvNoQa3GI/AAAAAAAABxU/_DzyFIWO6PA/s800/P5097051.JPG" /></a>

    swapped for the new plates and started to put the side cover on....... now the problem, the clutch actuating plunger in the middle of the clutch on the bike has to locate in the socket on the cover in order for the lever on the cover , only problem is that the plunger bit doesn't seem to be going far enough in and when we are all re-assembled, the clutch is nearly out of adjustment, I have had it apart twice now and still the same result. I am hoping one of the inmates could show me a copy of the reassembley part of the procedure from the service dvd- as I am sure there is something not right here:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
    #1
  2. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Well I would not have thought it ... but there appear to be several ways to screw this up..........:huh

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and .... as I have ALWAYS come to expect, the manual (Rev. #4) leaves me wanting more information..........

    Right off I see:

    Pic - 1) I'm not QUITE sure what they mean when they say install... wide/narrow drivers ... maybe this would be more clear if had the parts in front of me...

    Pic -1) note the sharp edge of the plates goes IN ... not sure why this matters, and would not guess that this is your problem, but since you are in there anyway ... I'd do it like they say...

    Pic 2 & 3) Note that some "construction groups" have a segmented thrust washer which might or might not be replaced with a NON-segmented thrust washer, or might be discarded completely as it indicates the new construction status does not use it? :huh

    It does give what I would call a "stack height" dimension well TWO of them actually ... 46.3 / 44.9mm so you could see if what you've got matches either of those.... If yours is thicker than 46.3 ... that would explain what you are seeing ........ If you discard the thrust washer it looks like the stack is supposed to be 1.4mmm thinner ....

    Also ... note the F658GS has different shoulder washer bits......
    I wonder if the spring preload is less on the 658?

    Well I'm sure I've cleared everything up for you now eh? :rofl
    #2
  3. Motorrad-Carlsbad

    Motorrad-Carlsbad motorrad-carlsbad

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    ...just browsing through these threads and can only say that jrwooden is a great inmate.
    #3
  4. CSL3

    CSL3 Claude the Adventurer :)

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    +1
    #4
  5. rockhopper

    rockhopper Been here awhile

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    AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH:eek1 :eek1 :eek1 :eek1 :eek1 :eek1

    We will have a look- many thanks
    #5
  6. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    You're welcome Chris :lol3

    I'd like some clarification myself on the segmented vs. non-segmented vs. "not there" thrust washer... if you find out anything let us know....

    I think I smell a "clutch upgrade" for us F658GS owners i.e. using F800GS shoulder washers .... and to think that in the old days I used recycled crush washers from spark plugs under the springs to get a bit more preload! :evil
    #6
  7. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

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    +1
    #7
  8. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    PS: Thanks for the kinds words folks....
    Where's the "blush" smilie :D
    #8
  9. GB

    GB . Administrator

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    Use this one :shog

    :lurk
    #9
  10. David_S

    David_S Long timer

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    off topic. JR how did you copy and paste from the DVD. I tried it yesterday as there wasn't any replies here yet but was unsuccessful with my attempts.
    #10
  11. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    David:

    I use a very old utility called "PrintKey 2000".
    It allows you to capture a screen shot or a piece of the screen and then save it as an image file.

    There may be a better way, but I just pulled up the page from the shop manual, did a clipped screen shot, saved as JPG then uploaded from there.

    PrintKey is not supported any longer, but works fine on my Vista PC, it is no longer available for download from any sites I trust as it is so old, but PM me your e-mail address and I can send you a copy or there are newer "screen capture" utilities out there that do the same thing...

    #11
  12. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    I use the print screen button in Vista and that "copies" my screen. I then can paste it into Photoshop and edit and save it.


    #12
  13. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    That works well!

    The one cool feature of PrintKey that I really like is that you can select the section of the screen you want to save or print so it's one less step.
    #13
  14. sturgeon

    sturgeon Long timer

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    Vista (and presumably W7) also has a "snipping tool" that makes this a whole lot easier. No need for PrintScreen. It's as easy as 'drag to select area of screen, save as jpg'.

    Another option is to print to PDF. I think there's freebies out that there will do this (I have Acrobat Pro for this, courtesy of ex-work).

    (Perhaps snipping tool is not in Vista Home Basic, which is just XP with a prettier look anyways).
    #14
  15. Firefight911

    Firefight911 Been here awhile

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    Where else can we bring our grubby, greasy, oily fingers to find out some information on a clutch issue only to find that we learn about computers?:ksteve:thumb:wave:wings

    <levity> LEVITY!! Not for the thin of skin!!! This means relax, I'm having some fun!!:krusty

    I never knew about the snipping. Just did it and BLAMO!!! Cool!!!
    </levity>
    #15
  16. sturgeon

    sturgeon Long timer

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    Geeks'r us :lol3:lol3
    #16
  17. rockhopper

    rockhopper Been here awhile

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    right then, job done !!!!

    took it all apart stared at the bits, compared it to the factory guide, may have had the steel plates the wrong way round ?!?!- sharp side out on a few of em! - the sharp side Vs the non sharp side is just the way the plates are punched out by a machine- if the sharp side is the wrong way it "may" cause the assembly to stick a little I guess.

    the wide Vs narrow driver is to do with the drive segment of the friction plates..... the old one I took out had 9 identical plates marked 26g A5
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/0qDGAd2c4W2zXX_Hj7ceXA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G04uAyTCI/AAAAAAAABy4/dhhxcf8rfiM/s800/P5177066.JPG" /></a>

    the new unit has 7 plates marked 26g A8
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/4Rvk0jH6hheOg_KIptcT3g?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G0_Cypz9I/AAAAAAAABy8/iR_AkUTzwjg/s800/P5177069.JPG" /></a>
    these have the top drive sections approx 1mm narrower than the other 2 that are marked 26g A7
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/q-IKF25XUh5teryzAJav6A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G1GVzc6mI/AAAAAAAABzA/koUkqLl1Fjw/s800/P5177071.JPG" /></a>

    you can see the difference here
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/qnFyGvd2yTkv9IE1FkagYQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G1dbqzXNI/AAAAAAAABzU/cWCOgLW2jgI/s800/P5177078.JPG" /></a>
    Vs
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/Xi7TMi3-nZtuKkymoeJoXw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G1ossO-tI/AAAAAAAABzc/Esw_p47SPyw/s800/P5177080.JPG" /></a>

    so you put the different steel plate at the back- really dont know why but whatever they say.
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/Itk8chBQYoayOb_Dm8hAZQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G1YI5VvXI/AAAAAAAABzQ/tMAG218JJAA/s800/P5177077.JPG" /></a>
    then one of the A7 frictions, then alternate with the rest of the steels and the A8 plates[all 7 of em], then finish of with another A7 but moved round one slot in the cage
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/yRYyRvVhOWkI1S8TlEHx1A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G1vpWbY1I/AAAAAAAABzg/3x8XmwXvQXc/s800/P5177082.JPG" /></a>

    the washers under the springs look like this on the 800, so you can have a compare with the 650 if you want
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/iCpuBVyJni6sHyw4PV5iBA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G11M0Lh2I/AAAAAAAABzk/_y2oI_cklds/s800/P5177085.JPG" /></a>
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/_S0obvBJTqWnyoLegCXANg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G18POEkrI/AAAAAAAABzo/euH2kpWmBJg/s800/P5177087.JPG" /></a>
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/e4alzZgAqaZh_PSFdIYwQw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G2D4Fa8kI/AAAAAAAABzw/SByZvcAonFo/s800/P5177088.JPG" /></a>
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/9Ptfe7YFHmJzs9LhvuB0Fw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G2LR9sciI/AAAAAAAABz0/BTQSQDwgirY/s800/P5177089.JPG" /></a><a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/tN5kvQ36TxAWIJhvKQgo_g?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G2Sxjrm_I/AAAAAAAABz4/dc9R866QbY8/s800/P5177090.JPG" /></a>

    only other difference that I have found is the new kit came with longer springs- suppose a little more strength for the drive
    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/a3YN_t0c-wVRqggOn1gMYg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_q7SuV7XH5Go/S_G2a-8l9kI/AAAAAAAABz8/AQ9T8JRU0o8/s800/P5177091.JPG" /></a>

    Anyway it all works:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap


    many thanks for the help- :clap :clap :clap :clap
    #17
  18. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    Cool. I learn something every other day....

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Use-Snipping-Tool-to-capture-screen-shots

    #18
  19. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

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    #19
  20. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Chris:

    Excellent! I'm glad that's all sorted!

    I hope I don't get round to taking mine apart for a while, but when I do I'll measure those shoulder washers and try to figure out why they would be different.

    Interesting that the new springs are so much longer...
    The wire gauge & number of turns looks about the same, but the standing height is obviously longer ... seems that BMW is making a number of small tweaks to the design as we move ahead here....

    Jim
    #20