HELP! Vibration problem

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by crazybrit, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    Can anyone help me to narrow down a new vibration problem? Bike is a 2006 950Adv. 2-into-1 FMF Q2. Uni Pre-Filter.

    First off, I screwed up and made way too many changes at same time. There is a reason why it happened this way. I won't get into it other than to say, mistake.

    Bike feels noticeably torquier at the low end all the way from idle to 4000rpm. Perhaps this is the 2:1? There is a new vibration that starts coming on at 4700 rpm and by 6000rpm it's VERY noticable in the bars/footpegs. For long distance you really need to not go above 4000 rpm else it gets very fatiguing.

    There is another thread which seems similar though I have the issue if I'm cruising not just accelerating.

    On way back from my ride I stopped at Beerlslayers house and we swapped bikes. I rode his 2006 950Adv w/ 2 FMFs. His bike feels less torquey but the vibes on his are less pronounced and constant from idle all the way to 7000rpm which is has high as I tried. Beerslayers comment was that he didn't think he could ride mine long distance.

    These are all the things I've done since the last tiime I rode it:

    1. Valve check, no adjustment, in spec.
    2. New spark plugs. Iridium. I slightly changed gap to be exact spec.
    3. Removed carbs, checked jetting. Front: 1 1/2T out 155M 42P n#3 Rear: 1 1/2T out 160M 42P n#3 -- basically stock except for the clip position. I had some issues with carb boots (see below).
    4. New waterpump bearings, shaft and seal
    5. Retorqued clutch pressure bolts per ktm bulletin
    6. Synchronzied carbs
    7. Installed DrBean fuel pump points replacement
    8. Wired up relay box behind headlight, ran wiring up right side and thru steering head with rest of wiring. Tight fit.
    9. Installed CJRacer 2:1 and Advtank

    I'm confident I assembled the carbs correctly (reinstalled jets/needes after verifying settings). I did have some issues with some rubber flaking off on the inside of one of the carb boots but it didn't look like it impacted sealing. I'd have thought if I had an airleak it would affect rpms below 4000 but maybe not?

    I just rechecked the carb sync and it seems ok. Video here and another copy here

    I was wondering if somehow the bike is stuck on the low-octane setting? The plug is connected at the rear of the airbox and I tested it is grounded with DMM at that point but perhaps there is a break between there and the ECU. I imagine I would need to check for ground on the actual pin on the ECU connector which is hard to get to.

    Any suggestions?
    #1
  2. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    Does it run well through the full rpm range, except for the vibes?
    Does it vibrate at the same RPM in all gears and neutral?
    Backfire on decel?
    That's pretty rich jetting for a uni pre-filter.
    #2
  3. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    Hi CP.

    Yes, runs well. I got it upto 110. Seems to make good power. Just vibes like crazy above 5000.

    Seems to vibe same in all gears. It's hard to tell if it's doing it in neutral. I tried ramping up the throttle on the stand but it wasn't definitive. I will try it again tomorrow on the center stand in neutral with some earplugs in.

    Not a backfire, more a slight murmering on decel, not sure if that makes sense?

    Could be. The pre-filter has been on for a long time before this and I didn't have any issues (I think). I'd read the 2:1 didn't require jetting changes.

    Thanks for the reply.
    #3
  4. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    The reason I mention jets is I ran the Uni with exactly the same jetting you have and found it ran OK but I felt it was on the ragged edge to too rich. Didn't really know for sure 'til I installed the H2W jets. Ran MUCH crisper. Maybe, just maybe, the 2 into 1's put you over the top. Does the bike start easily when cold without the choke?
    #4
  5. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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    Crazy,

    I just installed the H2W in my 06 Adventure for SeaLevel settings and No 2 into 1

    Here are my settings if it may help:
    with this setup on my '06 950:
    Front-Now Main #145 IAJ #70 LowJet #45 Needle 4<SUP>rd</SUP> Clip Float 3.5mm Idle Mix 1.75 Out

    Rear-Now Main #148 IAJ #70 LowJet #45 Needle 4<SUP>rd</SUP> Clip Float 3.5mm Idle Mix 1.75 Out

    Overall, this new setup gives about an extra 10-15% better mpg.
    No Vibes and Sync the Carbs at 4k RPM Range.

    Did not need the Rear 152 Main Jet and had a Stumble in the 4-6k range and Ken told me it was the Clip Setting or Float Setting.

    So I changed the Clip from the 3rd to the 4th Clip -- No Stumbling and No Gas Smell or Soot out the backend even after the 1000 mile trip I took with this setting.

    Hope this helps some.
    #5
  6. Beerslayer

    Beerslayer Journeyman Bike Knocker

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    Two things I noticed when riding this bike.

    First, it had a little more torque than mine, which is stock except for the FMFs.

    Second, the handlebars vibrate like riding a thumper when the RPMs are above 4500 or so.
    #6
  7. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    In neutral vibes start increasing at 4700rpm, same as when riding.

    This AM, without choke, would turn over and immediately die. Tried 5 times. Needed full choke for maybe 30 secs then was fine. This is what it's always been like.

    ......

    I'm heading off in a sec to borrow a TwinMax to have a second set of gauges to verify carb sync.

    Unless i get better idea I'll get new main jets tomorrow and install.

    If that doesn't fix it, next step will be to go back to 2:2.

    If anyone has any better ideas on troubleshooting steps, I'd appreciate hearing them. Thank you!
    #7
  8. Groundhog

    Groundhog Been here awhile

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    crazybrit,
    Just a thought & look at it from another angle...

    Have you double checked your plugs. A new one could be bad, a plug wire grounding, cap not on tight enough, etc.

    Groundhog
    #8
  9. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    Removed pre-filter (eliminating jetting). Pulled carbs apart and rechecked. New spark plugs torqued to spec. Checked all engine mount bolts. Finally removed 2:1/advtank and reverted to 2:2. Between each step, test rode. No difference.

    One of the nice things about KTM Northwest is that they have a good mechanic and you can call up and talk to him. He'll ride it next week. He doesn't think I'm losing my mind, plus experience w/ Beerslayers bike tends to confirm I'm not but Todd services probably 10 LC8s a week so he should have a good idea if it's normal.

    Everything points to the motor being the source (to me). Or a loose mount. Only crazy thought I have is that when I did my waterpump -- because I found the damage to the bore and installed the used case from MortimerSickle -- that the crank plane bushing in the case cover is out of spec. That seems such a long shot. plus the crank is supported by another bushing in the right case half, even so I'm kicking myself for not mic'ing the crank and having someone verify the bushing with a bore gauge. Each to do then, pita to do now.

    Oh well. Off on trip tomorrow with bike as is. Hopefully the worst that will happen is I'll have sore hands.

    Hopefully won't do any deep stream crossings ;-) as when I removed the pre-filter I didn't reinstall the snorkel.
    #9
  10. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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    #10
  11. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    Well, I put Iridiums in when I did all the mods. Just now replaced with new standards. So unless all 4 are bad or I can't install them properly (torquing to spec) I don't think this is the issue.
    #11
  12. topolino

    topolino Adventurer

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    My first thought is not that the engine is vibrating more but that more vibes are being transmitted into the frame/bars. When you are near another bike again, try putting your hand on part of the engine of each and compare. I was thinking of the new exhaust or tank maybe being in a bind but you have eliminated that. Maybe loosen and retork engine mounts, exhaust ect? Anything else anyone can think of that could transfer vibes to the frame?
    #12
  13. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    torqued them all, did not loosen and torque tho. tank has been off more times than a whores undies :D problem still remains. checked chain tension, it's good plus can feel it in neutral on center stand so tires are not a possibility.
    #13
  14. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    Decided to go on my annual ride to Lewiston Idado. Made it 70 miles to Hood River before I turned back. I'd not ridden much last 6 months on the 950 so I wasn't sure if I was loosing my mind on the whole vibe thing.

    Todays initial 70 miles on I84 confirmed I'm not. We usually keep up a steady 80 and that was spot on 5000 rpm and after 50 miles of it I was done. Physically I was done and I've been riding my 300 XC-W lately :D plus I owned a 625 SXC for 4 years.

    Stopped in at KTM Northwest on the way back. Todd started the bike, revved it between idle and 5000 rpm on the side stand. He said the blurring of the left mirror at 3000 rpm was not normal, neither was the vibes coming on at 4700rpm.

    Said the bike is running strong and sounding good except for the vibes. He is going to call KTM on Tuesday. Suggested something perhaps loose and I should take guards, tanks, etc off one by one and test each time. Also check swingarm pivot and subframe bolts.

    Did this, no change. Pulled clutch cover off and all the pressure bolts are still to spec.

    I have everything off bike at this point. Running it off a Motion Pro fuel bottle and I can't see anything rattling. It seems internal to the motor.

    Options:
    1) I did something when I checked the valves even though they were in spec and I didn't touch the cam bridges.
    2) Something is wrong with the used clutch cover that I installed (which came with 2000 mile old waterpump).
    3) DrBean fuel pump. This makes no sense as the bike pulls strong.

    The motor is strong, pulls hard, no lurching, no bogging, just really vibey.


    I don't think anyone is reading this anymore ;-) but man could I use some help!
    #14
  15. StmbtDave

    StmbtDave AKA Invisible Dave

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    We're still reading, just waiting for the final solution. :lol3
    #15
  16. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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    #16
  17. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    I've tried both. No difference. Head2Wind said to sync at idle which is what I did last. Motor does sound good. KTM Mechanic thought it sounded great also. Just horrid vibes though the bars. Driving me nuts.
    #17
  18. AdvGa

    AdvGa Long timer

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    Also, with Iridiums your are not needed to adjust the Gap...not sure if this is related or not. Never have with any I have installed.
    #18
  19. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    There is no stuttering. The engine pulls strong and consistent. Just lots of vibes felt in handlebars. I've had the carbs open 3 times now, I suppose it's possible the first time that I inadvertently changed the float levels. I did not make a conscious change.

    Possible I messed something up here, yes. Though clutch works perfectly.

    a) I barely adjusted the gap b) since have replace with set of new standard plugs. No difference.
    #19
  20. Yascher

    Yascher Been here awhile

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    I have the same problem, bars and pegs on 990 '10. Hands get numb quickly to the point I can't grab the brakes and even to the point of severe pain. I've ridden bikes all my life and many thumpers, was getting numb saa, but nothing as bad as this one.....and it does feel that the vibes are increasing with the rpm, like the rotating masses are unbalanced in the engine. Pulling the clutch also have an effect of redirecting some vibes in the clutch handle
    #20