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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Dusty1013, Jan 24, 2014.
That's definitely something legitimate to consider.
I've searched, since I first saw this thread, for where my aversion to high viz comes from, and finally figured it out.
To me, while I wear a helmet everywhere, at minimum kevlar Rider's pants and an armored jacket, gloves and boots, there is a limit to how much safety I'm willing to do.
Let me explain. I grew up in the 60's and 70's, and when we were kids we climbed trees, made ramps for our Stingrays with no helmets, rode brakeless minibikes in jeans, tee shirts, and All Stars as fast as they would go, made go karts and hauled ass down hilly streets, rode motorcycles helmetless, bombed down hills on skateboards helmetless, etc. etc.
You don't see that any more. A kid making a ramp for his or her bike? Without a helmet? Their parents, although they did the same thing as kids, would take the bike away. You don't see kids in trees any more, and they ride skateboards only at parks with helmets, knee pads, elbow pads and parental supervision. Everything is about safety, to the point that it becomes rediculous and even detremental to human life. When I was a kid, no one had diabetes. Sure, there were a few fat kids, but for the most part they kept up with us playing football, riding bikes, etc.
This is where the high vis comes in for me. It is screaming that motorcycles are dangerous! To me, when I see someone in high vis gear on a motorcycle, I see someone who is so averse to risk that they probably are so worried about getting hit they aren't enjoying themselves. I also believe this sends the same message to the public, who already believe motorcycles are deadly, do deadly they would rather actually kill their kids than to see them on one.
It's just that one step towards the bull^%$t ovwer-safety conscious attitude I am unwilling to take.
Wear your favorite color jacket, pants if you got 'em, your favorite color helmet, and ride like they can't see you. And have fun. The end.
How dare you think for yourself!!!!!
Well said, I see your point. I grew up in the 70's and 80's and can relate to that feeling. I wear hi-viz 3/4 of the time but I can certainly see where you are coming from.
Yeah, so what. I grew up in the 50's-60's and I still have all the scars from all the stupid, careless shit I did including a deep gash in my leg and 40,stitches in my head from crashing my Honda 305 Scrambler while dressed in cut off jeans and a teeshirt. Luckily I lived throughall that plus a stint in the Army and I now have sense enough to be better attired on my motorcycles. White helmet and HiViz.
I also spent much of my medical career hanging out in ER's and OR's. I've seen what stupid looks like.....and its results.
100% agree. I also grew up in the 50s - 60's and there is more holes in the argument than Swiss cheese.
Just take who's actually got the Type 2 diabetes???? It's the tree climbing skateboarding crew with no helmets from the 60's-70's who continued their devil may care lifestyle. If we'd all taken better care of ourselves perhaps would have the worldwide problem we have today.
It actually presented a pretty compelling argument for paying far greater attention to our health and safety.
Make no mistake, the kids are suffering for their "safe" lifestyle.
That said, I was just saying why I won't wear high viz. You think you need it, wear it. No skin off my back.
I wear gear and hi viz all the time because I don't see a reason not to. I agreed with hippieBrians post because I share some of the same feelings on how kids are being raised these days. You can't play dodge ball anymore that's too dangerous, make sure you scrub up with anti bacterial soap if you were playing in the dirt, that's if kids go out at all. Everybody gets a trophy we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. On the other hand it has nothing to do with what I choose to wear while riding.
I can't get the kids out from in front of a computer. That's why they aren't playing on their skateboards, going fishing, riding motorcycles (not in the numbers we did). And whose eating habits have they copied and who gave them the money to buy the junk food??? You're right that paranoid parents are part of the problem, but it's only part. But what mature adults choose to wear on motorcycles is totally unrelated.
When someone says "when I see someone in high vis gear on a motorcycle, I see someone who is so averse to risk that they probably are so worried about getting hit they aren't enjoying themselves." Could you see that could be taken as quite an insult. I wear a good quality yellow jacket because I spend 4 hours every day in heavy peak hour traffic on crap roads. On average I'd say once a week someone would take me out big-time if I wasn't on my game. I value all the help I can get, and that's why I wear it. Because its good quality and cool I also use it on week-end club rides, much to the annoyance of the other club members.
About the third post in this thread someone said, I agree Hi-Viz has merit but I just don't want to. That is all the non supports of Hi-Viz should say. When people try and put forward other justifications e.g. its unproven effectiveness, putting all your faith, substitute for proper skills, etc. all that does is give ammunition to the believers. People who don't want to, should just say I don't want to. How can anyone argue with that.
Sorry, it was just an opinion. A reason I don't wear it. What goes through MY mind, right or wrong, when I see it. That's all. Wasn't meant to be an insult.
Like I said, I had to think long and hard to figure out why I'm personally opposed to it, because it makes sense. I figured out why, and I'm thinking some others who are personally averse to wearing it may (or may not) have the same reason.
can't argue with that.
ok maybe someone can. and will.
It was your post I was referring to (actually page 4). I though the honesty of your comment was refreshing and to the point.
Not a problem. Every weekend some young turk on his super sport thinks the same and wants to show the old fart in his yellow jacket on his ancient ZR750 (not stock) what its all about in the twisties. Never get tired of this game which usually end with a friendly wave good bye at the end and perhaps a different view. Guys wearing it are not all scared beginners, we are just trying to shift the odds more in our favor.
Yeah, growing up in the '50's and '60's, riding bikes in the '70's with no helmet, T shirt and sneakers - crashed many a time like that with no lasting damage. My feeling is that people who wear extreme safety gear, hi viz and headlight on think they have done their bit, the cars can see me now, and ride like so. Fatal approach.
However.....My daughter is a dress maker, and was making some Zumba clothes with some bright orange fabric - ''This would make a good Hi Viz jacket'' she said to me...laughing because I don't like that stuff. ''I'm not a hi viz kinda of guy'' I said. ''Leave it to me....''
So, that Xmas she gave me a Hi Viz vest, classic cut with a high back, points at the front and fob pockets, dark denim, taffeta lining, handcuff chain....and some discrete bright orange inserts front and back. I sometimes use a Camelback, so is made to be visible wearing one. I now wear it all the time - long time since I wore a cut off DJ over a motorcycle jacket. I still ride like a phantom, it's hard to break a lifetime of defensive riding.... but every bit helps.
but wait, this is the internet.
flames must be fanned,
therefore I bring a new link to fuel the fire.
daughters love. nice story.
Because someone with less experience may feel safer wearing it, if they feel safer they may not be as vigilant as they should be.
Some people say if it works only once then its worth it, that may be true, but it only needs to fail once...... when you feel safer...... to kill you.
I would never discourage using high-viz because it can be beneficial, and I don't think there is any reasonable safety concern to not use it, but IMO, its irresponsible to claim it makes riding any safer or even imply it.
I wear a white helmet and a hi-viz jacket or shirt, with a hard/CE chest/back protector, armored gloves, armored pants, and offroad boots. I also make sure that my bikes have reflectors, upgraded lighting/LEDs, and better mirrors. The topcase I use on all 3 of my bikes has red/white DOT reflective tape on it. I try to ride aware, scanning,and positioning...see and be seen...use SEE as I'm riding.
I use my signals and don't ride like the public roads are a racetrack. I do, however, roll 100MPH or close in open dirt sometimes though. I also launch a 400lb bike airborn, ride sandy whoops, drift, wheely, and roost berms. I ride in rain, snow, mud, sand, gravel, water, wet grass, big-city rush-hour traffic, and clay. I don't even care if it's below freezing. If I feel like riding, I ride. I've jumped out of perfectly-good aircraft without a parachute. I'm not risk-averse at the expense of fun.
I don't ride in lightning though. Lightning skeers me.
When I was 15 I rode a Honda s90 from SoCal to Eugene Ore. and back with 2 friends, they were on trail 90s. That was in 1967. Friend went wide on a corner and hit some pine needles and crashed. Luckily his helmet was hanging on the side of his bike and saved his leg from getting smashed up. None of us wore our helmets much back then. Well, we all are still walking and riding, not sure how, slower these days and my one friend still rides rocky, steep trails from Idaho to Yellowstone in shorts, tennis shoes and a t-shirt but does wear a helmet even though it is not a law in Idaho. I wear Hi-Viz sometimes but still ride in shorts and flip flops at the beach. Pulled into Post Office a few days ago with my xt225 all black and yellow with the huge Hi-Viz Nelson Riggs Adventure bags(which I like), wearing a Hi-Viz jacket. I always park just into the parking spot so peeps can see my bikes. Just pulled in and was getting off my bike when a lady pulled in behind me and stopped within 5 inches. My leg was just swinging over seat and that would of hurt even though I was stopped and she was going 2. I gave her a look and she said sorry, I didn't see you!!! Wear whatever you like as I do but I do think it helps in many cases but Shirley, not all.
Ride safe my friends.
worlds worst mechanic