HID Conversion on a 12GS (pictorial)

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by JimVonBaden, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. WindSailor

    WindSailor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    795
    Location:
    Somewhere out West
    Ordered another replacement resistor, an 18 ohm 50 watt resistor from sun-pec.com - 50W resistors

    This is the first one I have found (as a single resistor) that has a resistance low enough and a high enough wattage rating for what I want to do. All of the previous web searches had shown a limited selection - I had to combine two 8 ohm resistors in series to make a 16 ohm resistor. Hopefully this will work out and won't be a bust.
  2. teomannaskali

    teomannaskali Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,185
    Location:
    Plaka 34
    14.4V / 18 ohms = 0.8 amps
    14.4* 0.8 = 11.5 watts




    As the resistance in the bulbs should be around 3.8 ohms.

    I am surprised the canbus doesnt complain about that value...


    If i had to "waste" 11 watts of power i would install lots of leds instead of a resistor making the bike look like an xmas tree, or maybe a little heated seat pad just big enough to warm left nad.
  3. WindSailor

    WindSailor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    795
    Location:
    Somewhere out West
    :D

    What is working right now is the 16 ohm resistance which I guess is around 13 watts of power. Don't know about the 18 ohm resistor yet.

    I like the LED lights (being somewhere) option - or something else. Your right - might as well put it to use.

    Edit-
    I did try using just 8 ohms - and that was a bad idea. The resistor was hot enough to cause 2nd degree burns with just a slight touch; so I though I'd up the value some... at 16 ohms it was barely luke warm - good enough.
  4. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    658
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    Maybe it's just semantics but I believe this entire topic is not a CANBUS issue but an ECU/ZFE issue. The sensor in the ECU is IMO looking at the startup volts/current as a function of time. Thats why those error killers are not just resistors but capacitors (with maybe a resistor too but I'm not tearing mine apart to find out, it works). Now if it is a capacitor, there is no DC power consumption.
  5. tallguy-09

    tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,440
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Capacitors can explode with wrong polarity...I'm happy I found a slim digital kit that gives me no trouble at all.
  6. teomannaskali

    teomannaskali Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,185
    Location:
    Plaka 34
    Some one who doesnt have anal violation at their customs should chop one up. Ill paypal the 8 or 16 usd :)

    Teoman
  7. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    658
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    :rofl:poserMaybe we should send in EOD when we find an old tube type TV :D
  8. Friction275

    Friction275 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    121
    Location:
    West of Indy
    I've looked back through the last few pages of the thread (the last calendar year, NOT ALL 1k posts) and it seems like some of the companies that people recommended, like 1off, are no longer in business. I also noticed that there are a bunch of companies that are now advertising their setups as being CANBUS friendly for cars and bikes.

    Couple of questions:

    1) Are all CANBUS systems the same, I.e. what's works for one will work for a BMW bike CANBUS?

    2) are the systems that are advertised as CANBUS friendly system for BMW legit (in general)?http://www.hidkitsxenonlights.com/bmw-r1200gs-xenon-kits-lights-conversions-headlights-bulbs/

    3) can anyone recommend a system to retrofit an 09GS that is still available?

    Thanks
  9. EJ_92606

    EJ_92606 Rider

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,792
    I can no longer recommend HID on the GS. Every time I ride at night a get numbers of headlight flashes and angry reactions...one guy even honked and yelled at me. Unfortunately the GS lens simply does not focus the light very well....I even pushed the height tab to the bottom to lower the beam and it still allows too much stray light out to the left which blinds oncoming drivers. I may keep my high beam HID in, but am afraid I have no choice but to go back to the halogen low beam. It's a shame as the HID low beam really helps with daytime visibility.
  10. NoVa Rider

    NoVa Rider Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,557
    I ride with my hid set up all the time. I just adjusted it so the cut line hits slightly lower than stock. . .. :thumb
  11. WindSailor

    WindSailor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    795
    Location:
    Somewhere out West
    I went in that direction too; to the point where it isn't offensive. Which in a way kind of sucks because it lowers the high beam also. Mine is pointed down low enough that even with the high beams on I don't feel safe doing anything over 65, that's low in my book.:huh

    I don't think that just because an item says 'canbus' that it is ok for all canbus systems across the board. There are quite a few companies that use the canbus system and I'd really hesitate to say they all use the same values in their systems for trigger points. I'd state what it would be used for when ordering and get a money back guarantee if it didn't work.

    It would be nice to know the trigger value for the low beam side of things. I suppose if someone was -really- gung ho on this they could experiment and find those values. Then it would be -easier- to find a compatible set.

    The Morimoto's I currently have draw 8 amps at startup - that's too much for the GS's ECU/ZFE. The newer / later ones are drawing considerably less than that at start up (I'm talking about 'all' canbus ballasts in general) and should have a better or acceptable match. Then I think you have to maintain at least a 1.5 to 2 amp draw to satisfy the ECU/ZFE. That's my best assumption right now.

    Maybe we can draw ol' TuefelHunden and others into this...

    -By the way- I had to go to a 10 ohm resistor to keep the ECU/ZFE satisfied when using a relay. The 16 ohm resistor just wasn't enough after a while.
  12. mikegc

    mikegc Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,657
    Location:
    High Point, NC
    I did the same thing. I really didn't lower it much at all and have yet to get an oncoming driver to flash lights. I've had the HID installed since March of '11.

    Mike
  13. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    658
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    Last week I found all the hotels filled from Ripley to Buchanan, WV along US33. That section of road is twisty and goes over several major hills (they call them mountains there). No moon, no street lights, but good center and edge lines. The HID's worked GREAT!!!! 55W, 5000K's from DDM tuning. I can say the control layout on a GS pretty much sucks because I was constantly having to feel around to turn the high beam on and off. I left the high beam on a couple of times and oncoming traffic let me know. I didn't get flashed a single time in three days with the low beam on.

    Another situation did occur. It was 32 degrees on Thursday morning and in the 40's Tues/Wed. I not only got the LAMPF! error, my low beam would not come on until the temp hit the upper 50's or 60's. The high beam had no problems. Even the error adapters didn't work on the low beam. My suspicion is that the bulb or ballast are defective. Anyone have a good, reliable source now that 1Off is no longer available.
  14. mikegc

    mikegc Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,657
    Location:
    High Point, NC

    I had the LAMPF! situation you described several times, always in cooler weather, with DDM and VVME kits. I had it with the 55w 1-Off kit, too, but not as often. Then, I switched to 35w ballasts and the HIDs have been flawless. When my 1-Off kit bites the dust (it has been working fine since March, 2011), I'll probably go with one of the aforementioned manufacturers but with 35w ballasts.

    Mike
  15. Charleetho

    Charleetho Mr. Zoom Zoom

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,611
    Location:
    Littletown, Colorado
    I have had my 35w DDM tuning HID's for over a year. Love them! Not one flash or complaint from other drivers. Maybe it is a California driver issue. I have noticed when following others on a twisty road at night they are more likely to let me pass. That is a plus. Never a complaint from on-coming drivers.

  16. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    658
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    That makes a lot of sense, Mike. IMO and as mentioned in previous posts, it is that initial draw that is the culprit. I'm going to 35W. Been thinking about that all night and it won't make that big of a difference. May stick some aux lights on. On my previous bike, a Tiger 1050, it had PIAA 1100x lights right up under the chin fairing. I hooked them into to the high beam switch and it was fantastic. The 1100x has dropped about $175 since the 1100LED came out so they are sort of a bargain, but the wiring could be fun.
  17. WindSailor

    WindSailor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    795
    Location:
    Somewhere out West
    The newer Morimoto's only draw 6 amps on start up. These cost more than the 'overseas' options. I called "The Retrofit Source" and they couldn't give a money back guarantee because they weren't designed specifically for the GS. So I don't know if they will work without any issues, or without a relay.

    I also did a quick check on some of the 'overseas' companies that offer cheaper sets. A LOT of them did have a 10 amp draw at start up - so beware of that. I'll say I just mis-spoke before I did some hard research.:eek1 My bad. There are some that have 6 amps and lower on start up, you'll just have to be cautious.

    Rick
  18. webjester

    webjester Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Oddometer:
    48
    Location:
    Detroit Metro
    So, it is finally cold enough in Michigan and, sadly, too cold for my DDM HID kit. Below about 65F the low beam craps out, i.e., LAMPF! (despite the "CAN Bus cancellers" from DDM). So far the high beam has been working down to 40F. We'll see how it holds up when the winter comes.

    Just to reiterate, the central control electronic measures the current to the low/high beam and disables the output if the current is either too low or too high to warn of a failed bulb or prevent circuit damage, respectively (remember, this bike does not have fuses). It does that by measuring the voltage across a shunt inside the module and only allows a certain voltage window.

    After reading the recent posts I decided to do some further tests and here are the results (2008 R1200GS):

    A. Forget the resistor in series. The HID module controls the power, that means if you reduce the effective input voltage by using a series resistor the HID tries to compensate by increasing the current. I confirmed this with an adjustable power resistor. Once the resistor is big enough the HID just starts to flicker. I managed to get the HID to stay on for a maximum of 250 milliseconds. That's it. So the module checks the current after 250ms after start-up (again).

    B. By using an adjustable resistor instead of the HID, I also measured the thresholds (low and high current) to find the point at which the central controller shuts down the low beam. The upper threshold was at about 6.2A @14.2V. The threshold is probably somewhat lower while the alternator gets to full output. During this time the current rises (for about 2-3sec after crank). The lower threshold was at 0.86A @14.2V. So, the current must be between these two values to be acceptable for the central controller.
    I didn't check the high beam as these thresholds are typically higher,

    This confirms everybody's findings:

    A. Some kits are just above, some below the 6.2A. Keep in mind that there is also some tolerance of the threshold from one bike to another.

    B. Using a relay to switch battery directly to the lamp will work if you have a resistor in parallel to the relay coil of about 14.2V/0.86A = 16 Ohms to satisfy the minimum threshold. Maybe 15 Ohms to be on the safe side. At 14.2V this resistor "consumes" 14.2Vx14.2V/15Ohms = 13.5Watts. Make sure that the resistor has adequate cooling surface. A 50W resistor can only handle 50W with a huge heatsink!!! Consider using a 15W or 18W automotive lamp instead (you know how hot that gets! The resistor is no different).

    Finally, there is one other option I am going to investigate when I have some more time (not for the faint hearted :D). As mentioned earlier the central controller uses a shunt to measure the current. If I could reduce that shunt by, say 20%, the thresholds for the current would increase by 25%. But there are a bunch of "If's". I would assume that the module is sealed against water intrusion etc. - We'll see. I'll report back if this is feasible (you can really fuck up your bike if something goes wrong :evil). Anybody know off hand where this module is hiding??

    Cheers :1drink
  19. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    658
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    Hi Jester. I too am looking at this stuff. There are other tricks being played in these systems. The 35W guys don't have anywhere near the problems that the 50w systems have. The obvious answer to that is less current at startup, but the Can-Bus friendly ballasts and error correction pig tails aren't using simple resistors but combinations of capacitors and resistors. Just a guess from deep in the cobwebs of that empty globe above my shoulders is they are using some sort of RC circuit to slow the current build up. I have a 35W Can-Bus ballast kit coming in. I'm at the point I want the bike to "work" when I hit the starter rather than playing Watch Mr. Wizard. Just something to think about. When the low beam LAMPF! error hits the low beam flashes and then stays off. Start up the bike with high beam on. On mine, it fires right up. So what's with that????
  20. marchyman

    marchyman DR and GS

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    9,109
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Huh? What year? My '05 applies power to the bulb even when the bulb is burned out (or missing). I know this as the headlamp power on my bike triggers the relay for my fog lamps and the fog lamps stay lit with a burned out bulb. I tested that before using the headlamp as the trigger.