HID Conversion on a 12GS (pictorial)

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by JimVonBaden, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. Friction275

    Friction275 Been here awhile

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    Jester (others)

    Based on your findings what if I powered my Denali LED lights off of the low beam power and also used that line as the trigger for a relay to supply power to a 35w HID setup powered directly from the battery?

    The Denalis use ~10 watts (0.83 amps at 12 volts DC) per lamp so that would be ~20watts / ~1.6a on the low beam circuit plus whatever minimal draw the relay has. Since I run the Denalis anyway the power I send to them wouldn't be wasted like it would be with a resistor.

    Thoughts?
  2. WindSailor

    WindSailor Been here awhile

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    First of all a BIG thanks for doing this webjester. :clap :clap :clap

    On a 2011 it shuts the circuit down on an overload condition. -IF- I leave the resistor out completely (relay operated low side with a resistor in parallel) the ECU still leaves power on to the circuit energizing the relay, but I get a 'Lampf' error. So the low side -trigger point- is just for the 'Lampf' error message.

    I have a 50W resistor mounted to aluminum mounting plate under the beak and in-between the ballasts - that way it would have air flow to help keep it cool. What I found out using the min spec resistor (16 ohms) is that (I used blade connectors for an 'quick change' option) over time the connections got a little dirty - the resistance actually increased and started giving me intermittent 'Lampf' errors. So I ditched that resistor / setup and went to a 10 ohm resistor with posi-locks and everything is good again. That resistor is - very narrowly- wrapped in silicone tape near both ends just to get it away from any hardware so that it could radiate the heat and not warp the ballasts. So yes - I am supporting your viewpoint of not using the 16 ohm resistor.

    If I had a choice I'd really like to get rid of the relay setup for the low side. BUT I really like the output of the Morimoto's (I still have the original set of 1Off's sitting on the shelf). I have read that the higher end of HID OEM's use a lower initial amp draw and still have the quick startup. Good luck finding those cheap. The only ones that are somewhat close are the newer Morimoto's - and the Denso's. But there are even 'overseas' knockoffs of the Denso's too. Arrrggg....

    Ehhhh.... have a few beers and thing about that one again. I have no doubt your capable, but is it REALLY worth it?
  3. WindSailor

    WindSailor Been here awhile

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    This one should get multiple viewpoints from people here...

    Possible.

    If you do this I'd use a blocking diode to prevent feedback to the ECU/ZFE when you tap into this circuit.
  4. fleeting1992

    fleeting1992 n00b

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    oes the CanBUS system on the K16 differ from the 1200GS ? I installed HID's for my GS and no probs with warning lights etc -just works perfectly.This thread is really interesting for me, as this is my next planned mod.
  5. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    If you are hooking them to the low beam, which means they are on all the time, why not hook them directly to the battery and maybe put an on/off switch inline. That way there is no effect on any headlight.hooked to the ZFE.
  6. webjester

    webjester Adventurer

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    Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement. Looks like there is still a strong interest. And I can relate. I love the HIDs, otherwise I wouldn't put in all this time.

    @Tuefelhunden
    I am itching to find out what is in the CANbus cancellers but don't want to sacrifice one yet. Like I said, with the current of the HID ballasts you are very close to the go/no-go threshold. Who knows what makes it just work. High beam ON may just create a small voltage drop on other supply lines, we'll never find out. Keep in mind it takes the contoller only milliseconds to measure the current and who knows what happens exactly during that time. Your best bet will be a relay.

    @marchyman
    Not sure what they do in 2005 models. I believe they still have fuses. May change everything. And control strategy probably changed a lot since.

    @friction275
    Yep. That's what I was think of. Extra bulb, LED etc. Anything with that wattage. Awesome solution.

    @windsailor
    Yep, I am with you on the beer! On my 2008 it shuts down under undercurrent for sure. So, that should make it a lot easier on 2011 models. You should only need the relay then, if you can live with the Lampf! on the display. Great find.
  7. Friction275

    Friction275 Been here awhile

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    I think you missed my purpose for considering running them that way. I'm trying to eliminate the LAMPF errror without wasting the current in a resistor or other non productive device. If I just unplug the low beam and run everything off of the battery via a switch it will work fine but I'll have a consistent LAMPF on the computer. As is my Denalis are run off of a relay from the battery but I'm still using the standard H7low beam.
  8. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    When I get my new set in (hopefully within the next hour or so) I will have two of those cancellers ready to be sliced and diced. [​IMG]
    I think it is pretty obvious that these guys aren't using simple V=IR calculations to solve this issue.

    And yes, Friction, I totally missed your point. I understand the theory but I'm thinking that if you get it to work, it may be more of a case of "cut and try" winning out over engineering. I've thought I had this thing whipped three times so far only to go out on a cold morning to see that wonderful LAMPF!. Good luck.
  9. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    At this point I'm thinking about taping some flashlights to my handlebars.
    1. Back in about April/May I got a pair of DDM 55W HID's. They both worked fine, no LAMPF!'s.
    2. Hit some cool weather, lower 60's, got an occasional LAMPF! but would go off after a restart or two.
    3. Got the Can-Bus error pigtails and the errors went away.
    4. Hit some mid to upper 50's and LAMPF! was back, but would go away in a short time.
    5. Got into the mid to upper 40's and the LAMPF! stayed on (no light too) until the weather got into the 60's.
    6. Through all of this, when I hit the high beam or turned on the high beam, it functioned fine.
    7. Yesterday I got a pair of 35w Can-Bus ballasts plus bulbs. One pair works like a champ. Even put the ballast in the refrigerator for several hours and it worked fine. The other pair is dead as a door nail. Yep, I did the usual swaps with good stuff and bad staff to make sure what worked and what did not. HID's R US already has my replacements on the way.
    8. Right now I have the 35W CanBus on low beam and so far so good. I still have the 55W DDM on the high beam without the CanBus pig tail. The only time it throws an error is if I disconnect the high beam or I start the bike with the high beam on. I think I'm going to just leave it that way and use the replacement 35W as a spare. Like I said though, so far so good. There have been at least two, maybe three times I thought this thing was stable to have the LAMPF! return.
  10. dsy

    dsy Adventurer

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    I see this is a few months old but I thought I would chime in with my findings. I'm running the newer Morimoto's from the Retrofit Source now (35w low and 55 high) and have been very happy with the set up. I was running the 1off hids, and dont want to offend anyone who thinks those were great but I was never happy with the output of mine from day one. I contacted 1off a few times about the piss poor performance of them, but they kind of just blew me off. (It was close to the time they were folding up). I am running Retrofits can-bus harness on both the low and the high beam just because that's what the kit came with and have not had one Lamp-f error even when riding the few 20 deg days we have had so far this winter. The Morimoto set up was more money, but the lack of problems more than makes up for the added expense for me. The bulbs from the Retrofit Source appear very high quality compared to the ones from 1off. All metal and ceramic base compared to the plastic and rubber base of the 1off bulbs. Am pleased enough that I ordered the H11 kit today to soup up my GSA stock fog lamps. :evilhttp://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=3955

    Doug
  11. rboett

    rboett posser noob 205

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  12. dsy

    dsy Adventurer

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    Went with the 35w ballasts and the 4300K bulbs to match the headlights. Will have to drill out the end cap on the rear of the fog lamp coverings to use the straight H11 bulb since the Source does not carry them with the 90 deg base. Should not be a problem. Will know this weekend :D

    Doug
  13. rboett

    rboett posser noob 205

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    great, take some pics of the build process, and let us know the result, pleeeeeeeeze:thumb:thumb
  14. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    Well it's cold enough to test the lights. Now running a CanBus ready 35watt ballast on low beam and a 55watt DDM ballast on high. All is right with the world.

    I had a 55w DDM unit and added the CanBus error cable, but when it got down into the 40's it would fail. Usually would light after a few minutes. When down in the 30's it would not just fail, but would not recover until the ambient temp got well into the 50's. The 55w DDM would work every time in high beam at any temp, AND you did not need the error cable. (Yes, I switched the two 55w ballasts and bulbs)
  15. dsy

    dsy Adventurer

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    Installed the H11 hids from the Retrofit Source today ( http://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=3955 ) into the GSA fog lamps. Very easy install and huge increase in light output onto the road.
    I thought I would have to drill the end caps out since they did not have a right angled bulb base like the stock H11 but the caps went back on with just a little pressure on the wires. The new hid H11 comes just like the H7 setup for the hid headlight replacement with the wires that feed the bulb and the trigger wires coming thru a rubber grommet.

    [​IMG]

    You dont need the grommet or to have the trigger wires go thru it so just cut it off.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You will use the trigger wires with the plug that you separated from that grommet, to splice into the stock power wire that was feeding the fogs. Cut the stock fog plug off about 3" from the plug and keep it in case you ever want to go back to stock. I went to West Marine and got some nice heat shrink type butt connectors. (the red ones. I think they are for 22 gauge wire) and some 3/8" heat shrink tubing to go over the butt splices to give it a more finished look. On the stock fog lamp power wire the solid brown wire is the neutral on both sides. The other one is the 12v+. You dont need the can bus harness or even the heavy duty relay harness on the fogs. So if you buy from the Retrofit Source you might want to see how much they can knock off the price, for not including either of those.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm not going to go into much about where to install the ballast as thats been covered pretty good above with all the options but what I did for mine when I did the head lamps was just split some vinyl hose and put that on the cross bar under the beak to act as a little bit of cushion and zip tied the ballasts across the two tubes. Its very solid. :D

    [​IMG]
    Head lamp ballast install here. For the fog lamp ballast I'm reusing the slim ballast I got from 1Off. Those are still on the sides behind the plastic panels.

    The light from the fog lamps have a nice sharp cut off so its easy to adjust them to not blind the on coming drivers. I did about 10 miles around town tonight and did not get flashed once.

  16. rboett

    rboett posser noob 205

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    Thanks for the write up :clap:clap

    hope the conversion goes well for your jeep.

    I may be doing this for MY GS ADV and MY Jeep (great minds....)
  17. Steiney

    Steiney Adventurer

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    So, after going through 1000+ posts (and quite a few adult beverages :1drink) I think I learned what I needed to know...

    I have a 2012 GSA, do about 90% of my riding at night (raining or not), ride into the low 20's, don't want to give up my "instant on" rarely used high beam, and absolutely don't want any fault codes or issues with the cold temps.

    I'm leaning toward: Retrofit H7 4300 35K w/canbus for low beam, keep the stock high beam (for flash and as a readily available back-up), and Retrofit H11 4300 35K for stock fogs.

    It sounds like these ballasts are the bigger ones - most everything I read had to do with mounting them in older bikes - any updates or are they still a pain in the ass?

    The only wiring mods required are the fog light plugs, is this correct?

    Any thoughts or comments on this set-up for my particular situation? I don't mind paying a little more for a quality product and the service that comes with it.

    As always, you guys rock...!
  18. mikegc

    mikegc Long timer

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    Steiney, I switched out my low beam on the '09 GSA over a year ago (4300K, 35W) and haven't changed a bulb since. I did the auxiliary lamps, too, but didn't care for them because of the "clutter." I switched them out for some PIAA HIDs with self contained ballasts and they were better. Finally, though, I've wired up some LED auxiliary lamps and wired them to flash full power in conjunction with the high beam.

    If you decide to use the OEM lamps, the plugs are easy to swap. I had no CANbus issues at all as long as I stayed with 35W.

    Mike
  19. Steiney

    Steiney Adventurer

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    Thanks Mike. Yeah, the clutter will be an issue unless I just get a set of Kristas (man they're sweet). Then I only have to deal with the low beam balast which shouldn't be too bad.
  20. onesaintsfan

    onesaintsfan BigJohnHart

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    I changed out both the high and low beam to 35w HID on my 08GSA. The High beam throws a totally different pattern than the lows. It appears that the lows make a big U shaped beam ahead of you. The High beam fills this in and projects ahead. But I tell you, if you change out and go to HID, you will rarely use the High beam because the low by itself gives plenty of light. So much so most people think you have high beams on. If you ever get on some dark two lane road late at night you will be glad you went HID in both.