HONDA CRF250 RALLY OWNERS

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by ferdiepick, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    that sounds right scooby i think its whats called safe mode /or limp mode ..when the lambda stops it defaults to a safe fueling mode and flags up the lambda fault

    tbo may main motivation was to get rid of width ..with the ovel zorst tucked in and the sloped side panels.removed .its actually 9 inches in total which is more than the width of one pannier :hmmmmm

    got to be no harm in trying to get a bit more zip if you can ..but as seen not alot there to be had ..worth atry

    ..but at least it may stop guys spewing 200 quid on a usless feuling device
  2. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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  3. Ed@Ford

    Ed@Ford Long timer

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    MINKYHEAD: I have read your Dobek comments in #2236. I am considering collecting all the required bits to put a CB300 stroker crank in my Rally. To insure appropriate fuel for the extra displacement I assumed a Dobek EJK would be required to force the 250's ECU to meet the 300's (286 actually) fuel needs. Is it your opinion based on your Dyno work that the Rally's ECU is "smart enough" to meet the 286's needs? For what it's worth, I have an EJK on my 2013 CRF-L, it seems to add power, but it does so at about a 10% fuel economy penalty. If I'm on a route that requires that extra range, I have the ability to shut off the EJK and get the fuel economy back.
  4. CJO

    CJO Adventurer

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    Hi, Ive just ripped off my front left indicator getting the bike out of my hut grrrrr. - The plastic has broken cleanly and could be glued but Ive snapped the wee electrical board inside - I was wondering if you guys with more knowledge than me (0) could advise on replacement
    Thanks
    Charlie
  5. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    any advice i gave would be pure guess work ..but maby the big diffrence would be the rally has a much bigger diamiter header pipe and a larger throttle body to start so it would follow its much more capable of a capacity lift than the 250 l
    ...this may be a case where the dobeck has some use as it does as stated lift fueling and although quite crude compared to a power commander it has that featrure to help if things turn out lean .and have a specific one for the 305 bb kit

    the other option may be to run the 300 ecu as you have the same capacity..dont know anything abot crank position sensors ect but you can pick a 300ecu quite cheap and the throttle bodies are the same width

    im out of my depth giving advice on kits id approach a proffesional for advice on that i think ..if you confident enough to split the motor eplace the crank your gonna know more than me id guess ...there are some mixed results on the reliabilty front too ive read #id say its no good getting power it its too high up the scale ..im not anywhere near knowlagble enogh to help with this

    the easy option is to source 300 motor /ecu and throttle body ...mine was 750quid all in ...it is a much much stronger engine particulary off the bottom end ..it makes considerably more power .. and 40 percent more tourque at 4000 revs than a 250l and not faroff 30percent more than a wr250r at 5000 consequently it can pull long gearing
    ..i have it at 15/39 opposed to the rallys 14/41 and it will work just fine off road ..thts a diffrence of 5 cogs on a rear and its still stronger than the rally off the bottom end ..irony is it came from a sports bike its amazingly tractable and almost stall proof ...go figure :confused

    ..it a cracking engine because it delivers real low low down usability ...and also because of the tourque the long gearring makes it pretty calm at 70mph..its a real shame as it shows or at least gives aglimpse of what honda can do with a small thumper its avery good off road motor a 35hp 400 would be perfect ...oh well:fpalm

    from memory the best the raly did was 20.86 or 21 hp with a knob tyre at the rear wheel ...at guess the 300 has around 30percent more braap but it is the touque curve thats most important id say..i geared the 300 backwards from 6600 revs at 70 mph as very surprised how good it went from the botton end its like a little tractor ..there aint that many been done but folks would be surprised as i was how strong the 300 is low down for a little low compression unit ..it hasnt got that hard charge of the enduro bikes and the hard 2nd hit like a husky say ... but it does pick up great from absalutley nowt to 6000 linier and pleasent

    its not that dear to do ..and its also pretty simple ..the other thing is you will have a near new spare engine on the shelf

    https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1040989-the-crf305l-owners-thread/?page=2

    [​IMG]DSC_0204 by minkyhead56, on Flickr

    [​IMG]63499144519397634713_dualsport_torque by minkyhead56, on Flickr
  6. Ed@Ford

    Ed@Ford Long timer

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    MINKYHEAD: Thanks for the feedback. I was led to believe a CB or CBR300 ECU plugged into a pre 2017 CRF-L harness will not run. Finally I have more confidence of the durability of CB300 bits in a CRF-L (i.e. all Honda parts) as opposed to aftermarket big bore kit. If I can pick up the 17% power increase realized when the CBR250 became a 300 (286 actually) added on top of the improved power of the 2017 rally vs my 2013 CRF-L, I'll be totally happy.
    minkyhead likes this.
  7. benlikes69

    benlikes69 Adventurer

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    You can buy a new one from Bikerbitz in Thailand www.bikersbits.com £31.28.
  8. benlikes69

    benlikes69 Adventurer

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  9. Traveller128

    Traveller128 Been here awhile

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    Just saw that you guys were having an issue with the Dobeck fueling. Which version are you using? Also, does the Rally have an O2 sensor stock across the pond?
  10. N11 EXPEESS

    N11 EXPEESS Adventurer

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    Cheers I’ll reroute the sensor cable and get someone to weld in a bung for sensor which has gotta be the safe option
    Scoobydidler likes this.
  11. ferdiepick

    ferdiepick Been here awhile

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    Fitted a 130/80 mitas E09 rear today. Looks a chunky nice tyre and just clears the back of the tool box by 5mm. Will give it a try on the trails on Sunday.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
    The_Precious_Juice likes this.
  12. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    using this one off me 250 .... not having a problem with it its just that for the most part no extra fuel is of any use ....rally has a 02 sensor as standard ...
    free flow zorst no cat and sufficiant airflow ?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CRF...429505&hash=item43e94c6b2f:g:HmQAAOSwF1dURu3s
  13. twinrider

    twinrider pass the catnip

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    Hilltop Motorcycles in the UK has been remapping Honda CRF1000L ECUs for a while now.

    http://www.hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk/
  14. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    this was the trouble ...bloke on the video said this ecu could not be remapped .....more to the point it didnt need a remap ....and it didnt need more fuel adding for the amount of airflow in the motor ??

    anyway im happy enough but my point was the ejk is of no use ...bloke told me to turn it off apart fom the orange zone which di a bit ....i dont know weather he or me is missing somthing but it was nicly in the zone when he had finished ..
  15. Traveller128

    Traveller128 Been here awhile

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    Ah, okay then. The issue with any closed loop system with an O2 sensor, is that it will try to adjust around anything you try to do to the fueling. If you make it richer, the factory system may take fuel away. I use the AFR+ system on my WR with an O2 for adjustment, but it's modifying the output from the computer to the injector in realtime. The factory system didn't have an O2 here. Can't do that with a factory O2 system unless you can flash the factory computer to make it stop adjusting itself. If you remove the factory O2 sensor, all you're going to get is limp mode which will go to a richer map for safety, and reduce the ignition advance.

    With a factory O2 system, it should compensate within a certain percentage. I would think that bolting on an exhaust should be well within the limits of the factory ECM and feedback. With a lookup table based system (Alpha N) you need to shift it a bit with a programmer, but with an O2 sensor shifting the tables around based on actual readings, it should compensate within about a 15% deviation up or down from standard values. I think that keeping the factory O2 sensor approx. the same distance from the exhaust port, should give the best result. If you start getting crazy with mods like big cams, big bore kits and such, then the computer probably won't adjust as it will be outside the limits of the factory tables. Simple airflow mods should be within the adjustment range.

    I really don't see a reason to flash a factory computer on a 250cc bike unless you're really modifying it. As in, much larger cc, larger injector, big cams, larger throttle body etc. I can say from modifying other bikes, you'll quickly get to a point of diminishing returns. Honda already made efficiency increases by hot rodding it a little, and got 1.4HP with the same level of noise output. So you're taking a motor that made 23HP, Honda got it to 24.4, and with a pipe and airflow mods you might make 26 or so. There should be enough room in the factory ECM to adjust for airflow like that. Anything more will require a significant outlay of money, hacking of the factory ECM to tune on it, and money. Did I mention money?

    The best mod for the Rally in my opinion, is displacement. Throw a CBR300 motor and ECU in it and be done. A tick over 30HP and more torque. It's the motor they should have put in it to start with. Keep the factory 300 ECM and increase the durability over any aftermarket tuning solutions. Simple fact.

    I've gone the route of larger displacement on the WR. The AFR+ has enough room in it to adjust to the big bore, but that's because it's a O2 based system with extra room in the tuning to compensate. It works, but for the amount of return on investment, you have to question the value. The AFR+, exhaust and intake mods result in going from 24WHP to about 27.5. The motor is about 3HP more than the 250L and Rally. With the 280 kit, it's 30.5-31HP peak (RWHP), about 4.5-5 more in the midrange (6K). The CBR300 motor will put down 27+ to the wheel. It's better on a budget basis. Get a motor from a wrecked bike with harness and ECM, bolt it in. Tuners, big bore, pipes, airbox mods, etc, won't get you to the power level for less money. Been there, done that. You spend more trying to make a 250 do something that a 300 will do with less stress.

    I like the Rally from a looks standpoint, but the L model will respond better due to lower weight. You're just only going to get so much from the motor design and displacement.
    78er, minkyhead and twinrider like this.
  16. twinrider

    twinrider pass the catnip

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    Yeah, the 250 size makes sense in Japan because 250s don't require biannual inspections but otherwise doesn't make much sense given the bike's 167kg weight. I don't get why Honda hasn't released a 500 Rally. It'd weigh only a bit little more but have so much more power.
  17. RowBust

    RowBust Been here awhile

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    So how much more would a 450 weigh? Has anyone weighed a 250cc and a 450. I would think the crank and balancer shaft (do they have a balancer shaft) would be heavier stronger gears and shafts, clutch bigger piston ,barrel,head all adds up. Then you need more fuel
  18. KDB

    KDB Adventurer

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    Got to have a sit on one yesterday and welcome to book a test ride, maybe even keep it for a weekend. Very nice looking quality bike. Very soft suspension though, $8200aus
  19. Radelaide

    Radelaide Adventurer

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    8,200 for a Rally ? I bought one in Adelaide 4 weeks ago and the 4 dealers I checked out had them for 7,000 ride away.
    Just googled and still 7,000.
  20. KDB

    KDB Adventurer

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    That was at SA Motorcycles. I said I'd read they were 6800 so they double checked and said 8200?