Honda CrossTourer, Yamaha S10, Tiger 800XC, BMW 800GS....OR

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by Pcfly, Nov 4, 2010.

?

Which would you consider to buy?

  1. Honda's New CrossTourer X-Tourer

  2. Yamaha Super Tenere

  3. Triumph Tiger 800XC

  4. BMW 800GS

  5. They're all WRONG!! Nobody's building the right bloody bike.....explanation below!!

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. R3B

    R3B Lazy Motorcyclist

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    Its just *what* you expect of a bike, if you're coming of a R6 or so, the Triumph with its viby threepotter will feel way more acquainted then a stomping XTZ. As i've seen with lots of people who traded in there fireblade and R1 for a GS and kept Whirring it at 5500 to 700 rpm "man it's thirsty and uncivilised".

    You need to rearrange your senses to ride a big twin even if its not Milkyway H-D...

    I even know a girl who got back aches of the GS and opted for a tiger, because it was a more tingly vibe in her back instead of the stomping twin...


    Nah, the S10 would not even Bother, he would look a bit smirking at the fighting lads, and go onto the singletrack leading to Tomboctou, thinking by himself;
    "look at those silly hormone affected children, why do they waste all there energy in squibbling when you also could travel the World"
  2. cug

    cug --

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    Aeh, why would that be without the F650GS, which is the same engine, just a little de-tuned?

    Yes, there are bikes on the market here, the values are still pretty high though. I bought mine for 12.8k and sold it for 11.5k one year and 5000 miles later. Try the same with a Yamaha or a Triumph when it's on the market for two years ...

    I haven't found official sales figures for the F650GS/F800GS in the US, but you can see that it goes quite well. Yes, the R1200GS is still sold in higher numbers, but that doesn't mean all too much.
  3. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

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    Right on R3B!
    Although that was not my point, you are on to something important here R3B. A guy named Steven Thompson wrote an essay that turned into a book exactly describing what you just mentioned: how people prefer certain bikes according to the vibration on handlebars, footpegs and seat. The name of his book is Bodies in Motion: Evolution and Experience in Motorcycling (2008).

    [​IMG]
  4. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    That's cool.

    Is that graph saying that the 94 K1100 is more vibey than the R90s?

    So is the Triumph Tr6C the most vibey bike in the universe?

    They should combine this with some fourier analysis so we can see both how much and where the vibes are.

    That is if I am understanding what it is saying.

    Cheers
    Graham
  5. Pcfly

    Pcfly Dude?! Seriously??

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    Well.....it's all correct but my intent was simply; "Which bike would you own or consider buying? ORRRRRRRR, everyone's building the wrong bloody bike and you would rather have something completely different?!" Yup, it was an open ended question! It's not about cc size, weight, class, price, or looks for that matter. Yes the logical view would be to compare those things (apples to apples). What I find interesting is that there seems to be a fragmentation presently going on with "Adventure" bikes. It seems that everyone mixes the term "Adventure bike", "Enduro", and Dual Sport" when they actually mean the SAME thing to us but with VERY different uses!

    The market seems well fragmented/divided in my eye's as to our understanding of these terms as well as confusing how these bikes are built/designed from the ground up! Despite differences and the lack of a clear vision, how is somebody supposed to build a bike for a market that doesn't know how to quantify what it wants?? :scratch Example; I call the 1200GS a big "Enduro" to people who don't know what big adventure bikes are. It seems to make it easier to understand....why, I don't know! The term "Dual Sport" confuses people outside of this community......what "sport" are you talking about"?! The term "Adventure" could be what an individual makes of it....in their mind not implying off-road or on-road, just some kind of "adventure". We all have friends outside of our "sport" and let's face it, they have some influence (especially the ladies :evil ) as to how we present our bikes, riding style or purpose. It stems from all of this that we either want a dirt bike/motocross bike modified with a big aftermarket tank, small wind protection with lights to keep the weight down or something road worthy to take us to and from our dirt riding location! The USE here is where the manufactures have to compromise because we can't quantify what we want!! I KNOW, I KNOW.......don't flame throw me for all this!! I know WE ALL have a clear understanding in our heads.......but the marketing people driving the engineers can't seem to understand our "sport"....riding habits!! :D

    To summarize (how the hell did I make this into a dissertation); we all have our "ideal" bike in mind, light modified dirt-bike, big pig syndrome or comfy mix. We all know our style of riding, riding locations and difficulty level of preference. We as a whole, can't seem to figure out how to present ourselves or our sport with a clear vision to blue-print it to the manufactures so as to build focused bikes!!

    So again, the original intent of the post is to gauge what people prefer with the 800XC and S-10 as indicators but not necessarily the only choices. :*sip* :mully :gerg :jjen :kboom

    Somebody import me an XT660 Tenere......then I could get off my Big Pig! :jack
  6. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    I think what we have is a bunch of manufacturers, trying to make general purpose bikes, which are by definition compromises and which seem to be a growing segment of the market.

    Every person will have there own definition of what adventure motorcycling is, but I would hate to see a situation where the only product being offered is either 800cc or 1200cc and all like the S10, Tiger XC BMW GS.

    There is room for extreme off road bikes (Yamaha 450, KTM, husaberg, etc territory) and more road biased (Stroms, Future Honda-Stroms, MTS, R1200RT).

    If you could get the bike that everyone wants...
    (you know that bike that weighs 100Kg fully fueled with a 20 Gallon tank, has a V4 engine for smoothness on the highway, makes 200Hp, 2 metres suspension travel, can carry 200Kg of gear plus passenger, handles like a Gixer on the tarmac, and a 4500cc MX bike on the dirt, with the gear and gets 100mpg and never breaks all for $2000.00)..
    then fine but until then I am glad that there are a range of attempts to get the "general purpose" bike back into the spotlight.

    Whatever you call that is just a marketing term. And the chosen bike will be different depending on the stage in a persons life as well, just as it has always been.

    At the moment I would love an XT900Z, but there aint one so the S10 and the Tiger are in my sights but because there is often going to be lots of weight to carry a long way quickly, (time constraints, and kids) at this point it'll probably be an S10.

    When I get older and frailer and the kids have their own transport I may work my way back down to a 125cc class bike via the smaller general purpose machines, to escape the retirement village occasionally.

    But that is me, I never really got into the Track bikes (Gixers etc) or the MX bikes because I like to explore a bit and they were all too finely defined. I am glad the General Purpose bike is back.

    Cheers
    Graham
  7. Pcfly

    Pcfly Dude?! Seriously??

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    It's just an observation, totally agree with you!:1drink
  8. M N B

    M N B would rather be riding

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    It surprises me that the F800GS fared so poorly in this poll. Especially since it kicks the pants off the other bikes on the list, with the exception of the Triumph, which is a slightly heavier, slightly less suspension travel, one more cyclider copy of the F800GS...

    Anyways, here's a not very technical or detailed review by a couple of brits that compares the Tiger 800XC to the F800GS.

    <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b9aF0L8smac?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object>
  9. tremor38

    tremor38 Long timer

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    Not surprising to me and many others in this thread. 'Kicks the pants off the other bikes?' That sounds more than a bit subjective to me....especially since I see you are 2 BMW owning fan boy, who lives in San Jose and has never even touched an S10, for starters. :D

    That's not a condemnation of BMW, but they just aren't the 'uber bikes' that some owners try to make them onto.

  10. roadspirit

    roadspirit Been here awhile

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    I'm a happy owner of the F8GS. But I voted for "They're all WRONG!! Nobody's building the right bloody bike.....explanation below!!" :lol3

    Among the choices of the poll, for my given skills-riding preferences-likes and dislikes, the F8GS is the one!
    The Honda and the S10 might be great riding machines but for me they are just too big, too heavy. They can be Grand Tourers, but not adventure bikes, well at least the way I see it.
    The Tiger ..I've ridden it and it didn't convince of for an off-roader.

    Why did I vote for something other than the F8 then? Because we can never stop asking for more and better, that's why :lol3

    As i wrote in this thread : http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15081822#post15081822 if the beemer was lighter (perhaps 20 kgs), had a larger tank and a bit better suspension, then it would be ideal.

    As a concept, I would really love to see Honda revive the first Africa Twin, the XRV 650, probably the best dual-sport/adv bike there has ever been.
  11. Pcfly

    Pcfly Dude?! Seriously??

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    Is this thread still going.......I thought it died!! :lol3

    I agree with you on every point......and speaking as someone who is a BMW owner; We are not fanboys of being hostages of the expensive BMW service prices. Yes we may like our bikes but it doesn't mean we don't like other bikes! If I could own 10 different bikes I would.....I'm not a one bike brand guy.

    I see the S-10 as a welcome addition to the big pig club. I like the fact Yamaha's got balls to bring it here(US).....hell, if they brought over the XT660Z Tenere I might even consider trading in my 1200GS for it!! I love bikes with utility and the more utility with inexpensive maintenance the better!!

    I started this post and I didn't vote for the F800. Just like you I vote for "they are building the wrong bike".

    One bike that should have been on this list and one I believe is the best of all sub 400cc bikes, might even be better then some sub 650cc bikes is the Yamaha WR250R! It's a little gem! It's got as much hp as some 400 bikes but has dirtbike creed with high service intervals of the big bikes and can do tar just fine! No it won't win a race but it's got 95% of just about anything anybody wants to go anywhere! I don't even own one but I like it that much! Looking to pick one up later this year! :evil
  12. RonKZ650

    RonKZ650 Been here awhile

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    I had a WR250R. Had a lot of things I did not like. Horrible seat, 85 mile gas range, no way to tie any luggage on. The fuel injection worked 10x worse than old carbs, took 3 miles at least before dare give it any gas or it won't go, so don't pull into traffic or try to climb a hill until fully warmed up. Speedo reads way optomistic, I can see 5mph off at 50mph as ok, but it read like 65mph at 50. Great for avoiding speeding tickets anyway. Lastly chain drive, never again, so that rules out most these bikes here. For me there is only 3 choices, either the BMW 1200GS or the Yamaha Super Tenere, or possibly the Moto Guzzi. I sat on the BMW and said, nope this seat isn't going to cut it, sat on the Yamaha and it felt fine, so that's what I'm going with.
  13. Pcfly

    Pcfly Dude?! Seriously??

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    A 250 in Colorado?! I could feel my 1200GS was low on power in Colorado!! :lol3

    Well, I'll add you to the 2% list......the 2% that complain the 250R is/was a bad bike.

    I can attest that just this past weekend I had a hell of a time chasing down another ADV rider on his 250R! The man was flying in the dirt and doing 85+ on hwy 1! It impressed the hell out of me........but I'm not in Colorado.

    Not that I don't like the S-10 because I very much do.......but judging a bike alone by it's seat?? I think 95% of riders eventually change their seat on ANY bike they own given time?!
  14. RonKZ650

    RonKZ650 Been here awhile

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    Not that I don't like the S-10 because I very much do.......but judging a bike alone by it's seat?? I think 95% of riders eventually change their seat on ANY bike they own given time?![/QUOTE]

    Not me, I've been riding since 1970 and have never changed a seat from stock in 400,000 miles plus. :D I see all these aftermarket seats around and they either are butt ugly, and/or look OK but the cover rips to shreads in a year or two.
  15. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    hasn't the 800 gs suspension been called seriously lacking?
    even though the forks are usd people say they are low quality, or have they improved over year models? if not then the 800xc suspension must be really bad according to this guy.

  16. patrick2wd

    patrick2wd pop-pop-pop-pop-etc.

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    IMO triumph,,,,
    nice but too heavy...

    S10 = best of both worlds..

    BTW.. Im looking for one.. :D

    aside my 3AJ

    and no KTM 990?
  17. cug

    cug --

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    Thinking about this again, I think nobody is building the right bloody bike. Personally I'd love to get water cooled, fuel injected roughly 600cc V-Twin (like the one from the TransAlp), put a rock solid shaft drive, a very good seat, and a working adjustable windshield and make it < 200kg fully fueled and road ready and that would be the ticket. Nobody builds something like this and nobody will. There is no market for it.
  18. Rob Dirt

    Rob Dirt More or less in line

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    I can't figure out why nobody will give us a granny 1st gear & a real overdrive 6th gear. Does anybody know?
  19. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    What do you call a "real overdrive 6th"? Numbers please.
  20. dljocky

    dljocky Been here awhile

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    All this, and at least a 225 mile tank range.