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Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by cabanza, Nov 12, 2012.
Sorry my lame attempt at humor , I will go away now .
Are you calling me old? :ddog
Why trust hydraulic brake systems when you can just drag your feet to slow down? If dirt-trackers can do it, so can you Jerry.
On smaller bikes I really would prefer cable/rod operated drums. I've accidentally cut the front brake line on my XT225 twice while riding off road. With a cable operated drum that would not have happened. I see no reason for a rear disc on anything but the heaviest bikes, which does include the FB6 and Rocket III. But I still want full control.
I DID ride almost 10,000 miles on a Honda Rebel 250 with NO rear brake. It was not intentional, I fabricated brackets to move the pegs and shifter 4" forward, and just never got around to fabricating a rear brake linkage. After a while, I realized I didn't need it.
Don't you wonder how people rode motorcycles and drove cars BEFORE ABS without getting killed? ABS is only contributing to the "dumbing down" of riders and drivers. They don't need to, so they never learn to use the brakes properly. And the ones that did learn will forget, and will be in real trouble when riding/driving a vehicle without ABS.
They got killed more often back in the day.
If you think things like ABS are unnessesary just ask your wife, daughter, or brother the meaning of 'threshold braking'.
I'm with the Toad. A touring rig HAS to have cruise control, ABS, a radio with satellite receiver.......Honda, when you finally figure out what century we're in, I may look at you product. But, probably not.
I'm still trying to figure out how Honda came up with their base price of $20k when a base Goldwing with all the extra goodies is just a hair under $24k. Here's a good start to the list of standard Goldwing goodies the F6B doesn't come with...
Computer Controlled Rear Shock Pre-load w/2 Presets
Power Headlamp Adjustment
Nice King/Queen seat
Tall Vented Windscreen
With a laundry list of omitted options like that I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the price difference should be a lot more than $4,000. As much as I like the looks of the F6B, if I were in the market to buy today I'd buy a Goldwing as it's the better buy. And I'll go ahead and predict now that the F6B won't hold it's value nearly as well as the GW does.
self canceling turn signals
factory configured place to put the cb (which goes in the rear trunk)
That's very hard logic to fault.
Very good points. I rode a F6B and have ridden a Gold Wing. I traded a DL650 and now have the F6B in the garage.
The Deluxe has heated hand grips and I expect the aftermarket to address the CC issue. The seat on the F6B was more comfortable for me. I always felt the GW was cramped. I don't want to pay for or carry around anything else on that list.
It came down to the motor and how the bike felt to me. I was not going to buy a Gold Wing. I would be on a HD Road Glide if Honda hadn't released the F6B. As far as resale values go, I've probably lost enough on trades and sales to buy 2-3 Gold Wings. Why buck the trend now.
I wouldn't miss most of that stuff either. In fact, the cruise control and the Deluxe options would pretty much cover my needs (ABS would be nice to have). However, having installed an aftermarket CC on a couple bikes now and knowing their limitations/pitfalls, the lack of it from the factory on the F6B is a real deal killer for me at this point. Maybe Honda will see the error in their ways and fix that for 2014, but I won't hold my breath.
And if you want complete honesty, even the F6B is more bike than I really want/need and I'd be just as happy with something very similar in a 800-1000cc version that puts out 90-100hp. A modernized version of the old GL650 Silver Wing if you will - with CC of course. 98% of my riding is solo so I don't need the extra size and power of the GW or F6B, but there's really nothing else out there that compares to either in terms of comfort and features that isn't a cruiser.
I am very familiar with "threshold braking" having been practicing it for over 40 years under all kinds of conditions. Not once have I dropped a bike on the street.
Ever since I got my first Goldwing, a 1200LTD several years ago, and joined several Goldwing forums, I noticed they all had a thing for gadgets. I have always wanted a real Goldwing without a single gadget, even "must have" stuff like a stereo, cruise control, on board air compressor, trip computers, intercoms, etc. Most Goldwing riders would not buy one without reverse. REVERSE!!?? On a motorcycle? You've got to be kidding. Sadly they are not. I recently sold one with reverse, though I never used it. It was very fragile and prone to failure, and could damage the starter and transmission when it failed.
The original base model 1980 Interstate did not have anything on it that any other motorcycle didn't have, other than the fairing, trunk, and bags. The fairing had a lot of storage pockets which came in handy, but not a single button, knob, or speaker. It had air suspension, but you had to use an outside air source. It was a motorcycle, not a 2 wheeled car. I think if Honda would get rid of ALL the gadgets, they could sell the Goldwing for the same or less than the FB6.
However, unless I missed something, you can STILL buy a new Goldwing without the dreaded ABS. Yes, the dreaded part is my opinion, but I have found quite a few others who have the same opinion.
Have you ever even ridden a bike with ABS? I have and I'll be damned if I can even tell it's there... Well, to be honest, I have intentionally attempted to lock the rear a few times just to see what would happen, but as hard as I feel comfortable pushing the front on dry pavement I've yet to feel it kick in. SO, what's the big deal? The knowledge that I have a system that I've never used doesn't diminish the fun I get out of riding that bike one iota.
It really isn't for "normal" use and events. It's intended for that one time when you brain fart, as all of your attention is focused on that car that just turned left in front of you just as you hit a slick spot in the road. If you've never tucked the front on a bike, you really have NO idea how fast things can go to shit!
For all intents and purposes, it's a lot like an airbag... not there unless you need it. If you don't need it then it won't activate and you'll never know the difference. Perhaps that will never happen, in which case you'd be just fine since you could pretend your bike didn't even have it. BUT, if you ever DID need it, and it activated and helped save your bacon, I think you might be mighty glad it was there after all...
Safety features aren't a bad thing. Once upon a time cars didn't have seat belts either. And how many people pissed and moaned when they came out? How many pissed and moaned when seat belt laws were instituted? How many lives have been saved because of seat belts and better structural engineering of modern cars? ABS is just a logical extension of this. It's about making it safer, not less fun. And you do still have full control over your bike... right up until the point where you either do something really dumb, or the totally unexpected catches you with your pants down. Do you really want to die in either event? You can practice threshold braking all you want on nice pavement when you're concentrating 100% on the task at hand. It's another thing all together when the shit hits the fan and you have 0.14 seconds to engage your brain, and when a whole lot of things other than braking is vying for your attention in that instant. Similar to shooting well at the range when punching holes in paper. The target becomes a whole lot harder to hit when it starts shooting back.
Now, with that said, a bike NOT having ABS is neither a requisite nor a deterrent for me wanting it. If it's offered I'd probably take the ABS model just for that added safety cushion, just in case. If it wasn't offered, and I still liked the bike, then so be it, I'd do just fine without ABS too, I'm sure. Of seven bikes in my garage now, only one has ABS, so obviously I'm comfortable riding bikes without. But I sure as hell ain't bitchin' cause that one does have it either. I really can think of several arguments for ABS but really I can't think of not one valid argument against it.
Don't dodge the point Jerry, I know that You know about threshold braking, but what about the others, Jerry.
It is something you should have to learn if you are going to ride a motorcycle. Motorcycles are not for everyone, nor should they be. It takes a lot more skill to ride a motorcycle and not get killed than it does to drive a car. If you are not willing to make the commitments that riding a motorcycle requires, then you should not be riding.
Back in the late '70s I raced MX. And that is what it was, racing. Everybody crashed, and got banged up. The gear of the time was pretty pathetic, and so was the suspension. But, nobody did anything totally crazy, like they do now. I'm talking about "freestyle MX" where about the tamest thing they do is backflips in mid air. Even Evel Knievel wasn't dumb enough to try something like that. I certainly thing riding a bike in traffic without ABS is a whole lot safer. My guess is the reason for such "extreme" sports is that these idiots got bored with safe, and decided to go just a bit to far. Riding a bike in a normal manner is not as safe as driving a car. And the fact is, MOST people should stick to cars. Motorcyclists by nature are risk takers. They are also willing to deal with inconveniences like heat, cold, rain, no way to carry stuff, etc. that most are not.
I see motorcyclists as being a lot like pilots were back in the '20s and '30s. I was a pilot once, for all of 2 years, back in the early 80s. Could not afford to put enough hours in my logbook to keep my license. But flight school was mainly about one thing. Safety, safety, and more safety. Nothing was ever said about fun. And there were FAA rules to cover absolutely everything, to make positively sure you did not have any fun. Of course, other than the pleasure of flying itself, there isn't much you can do in a utility aircraft. I always envied those who did aerobatic flying. I never had the chance to get into anything like that.
I go to work, and what do I see? Safety signs everywhere. Safety glasses, gloves, and steel toed boots. Safety rules everywhere. We have a safety rule book 4" thick. Now, I have no desire to get hurt, but I wish they would give me a little credit for being able to think for myself, and use some common sense to avoid getting hurt (I have a nearly perfect work safety record over the past 35 years, and I break their rules right and left. Have to if you are going to get anything done) My belief is that safety comes from skill, experience, and the right attitude. All three are absolutely essential for riding a motorcycle. I bought myself a 6' step ladder recently. I spent the better part of an hour with a heat gun peeling about 20 safety stickers off of it. It only needed one, that said "do not use this ladder if you do not know how" I mean, enough is enough.
This is an ADVENTURE riding site. By it's very nature, adventure riding means taking risks. Risks many would consider unacceptable. I guess I just have a hard time believing someone who would ride a motorcycle around the world, or from Alaska to the tip of South America, would even give a rat's ass about ABS. But then no beginner is likely to undertake something like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M62y6BgvO-0 Enjoy the video. No ABS on that bike. Just fun.
Looks to me like the better route is to make a bagger from a Wing like this:
credit for photo and the lovely bike to Cerviperus :
Thanks for the compliment! It's been a hit any time I take it somewhere. I stopped by the dealership where I bought it on my way through one day. The owner of the shop wanted to know where he could get the kit, because he liked the looks of it better than the F6B. I tend to agree, but I'm biased!
One of the other things I didn't care for on the F6B was the seat, and this allowed me to retain the stock seat.
Had my F6 just over one month and already got a speeding ticket. Speed camera, but I was speeding.
I really do need to slow down, the torque is just addictive.
Now that's more along the lines of what I'm looking for, with the bonus aspect that I can buy used and save a good bit of $$ over a new F6B.
Now if someone would just buy my Connie...