Honda preparing Dakar assault

Discussion in 'Racing' started by STROM-CRF450X-990SMT, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. too old

    too old Keen supporter

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    No Chris - only 4 men after Sam was injured, of course we don't know about Philipe as yet, but it can't be too positive for this time?
  2. michalCCR

    michalCCR Been here awhile

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    Talking last-minute deals... only sad memories come to me.
    Fabrizio Meoni and Andy Caldecott weren't supposed to run their last races, but unfortunately did so :cry

    I wish soon recovery and return for both Sam and Filipe.
  3. rmhrc628

    rmhrc628 Long timer

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    Hang on a sec - Sam has broken his arm!!! He's not dead. He's young and über fit so will recover very quickly. Zanol is in the BEST place in the world to have had such an accident - the only other hospital might be Bethesda on other side of the US.

    These riders will recover and now as I think Troy is alluding to, a very strong response is required from the MANAGEMENT at HRC.

    No one has died here. I'm assuming some of the responses are due to the bikes chances of winning - because except for Troy :) we all bleed Honda red and want a red victory.
  4. rmhrc628

    rmhrc628 Long timer

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    How do you think red bull ktm would respond? They'd be right on it.

    HRC (who hate criticism) need to come out bats swinging
  5. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    You totally misunderstood what he was talking about :nod
  6. fetid_swamp

    fetid_swamp Been here awhile

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    he does that from time to time.

    i must admit, my thoughts immediately after feeling awful for sam and zanol (esp after meeting sam safari 2011) and wondering wtf happened in the mighty hrc camp & they need a replacement/s.

    who else but the as younger smith could an aussie want. esp after troys lead up over the last couple of days.<label for="rb_iconid_24">[​IMG]</label>

    it could then be fish, smithx2 and grabbo as the aus fast crew. how good would that be.:freaky

    next came the last minute replacement (AC<label for="rb_iconid_19">:cry</label>) concern.
  7. michalCCR

    michalCCR Been here awhile

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    Sorry to scare you by maybe not so clearly written post. But right now I can recall only sad last-minute replacements. Meoni was called as late Sainct's (Pharaons rally) replacement, he shouldn't have raced as he ceased his Dakar career before. A year later Caldecott came instead of injured Jordi Duran after he hadn't collected enough to race on his own.
    God, even now I can't resist tears remembering those two...

    Sorry guys, didn't mean to bring back bad memories.
  8. mxmum

    mxmum Been here awhile

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    I can totally see where you are coming from and it is sad but true that some of these last minute replacements do not work out for the best, sometimes best to let sleeping dogs lie until the next time :cry:cry
  9. mxmum

    mxmum Been here awhile

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    Thank you for your kind thoughts and best wishes, I will make sure Sam receives them and although he does not contribute to this forum I am sure he takes a sneeky peek now and again :rofl:rofl
  10. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Um... not quite...

    Ah... yes;

    What I am alluding to is this HRC statement:

    TEAM HRC will give full support and hopes that the riders are on their way to recovery. We will communicate any news on their condition, as we will inform you on the riders&#8217; participation of the 2013 Dakar Race.

    And how they (with the short timeframe available) intend to proceed towards the rally in January, and the immediate future thereafter; as far as their riding staff is concerned.

    There is no doubt on that front that Felipe and Sam have recieved (and will continue to be treated) with the best medical care available, and we hope that both make a full recovery - some extra positive energy being sent to Felipe and his family's way just now; at what must be a most worrying time.

    As far as the rider roster for the DAKAR is concerned, the word is that after Sam's accident; there were no immediate plans to look for a replacement for january... ie: go with the remaining four rider team.

    When Zanol bit the dirt shortly thereafter... suddenly 24 hours on and HRC are looking at going to the startline with a 40% depleted armarda... before they even start.

    The question is for mine - will they start with only these three, or look for (one or two) riders to fill the spots?

    Obviously the entries, bikes, team logistics (ie. fiscal investment and planning) are already in place and have been budgeted/expended...

    Does the management now just take the bullet on 40% of that investment, or look for a mercinary to come in at the 11th hour (it's happened many times before).

    In the case they DO look to go down that route... next question is (given that the HRC effort is based on several global affiliates within the HONDA worldwide family, who have each contributed to budget/rider input from their respective geographic regions); do they look at picking a replacement SOLEY based on geographic/demographics... or hire the mercinary that is best for the job - regardless of WHERE they are from.

    I would think that an already existing long term affiliation with an established national HONDA satellite team, a prior winning record in a number of major races over the last few years, many of these over other existing top level DAKAR competitors, one who previous DAKAR experience/finish AND has all of the applicable FIM licences etc. to do the job, just pack the helmet, boots and neckbrace and jump on a plane...

    When I put all this in my melon shaped database on Tuesday... one name popped up on top of my short list... but I am sure there are others out there as well.

    Just for the record... Jake isthe younger of the Smith boy's (Todd is his elder brother)... it is just that Jake got an earlier start on the Rally scene... by placing second - on debut - in the 2007 Australian Safari; at just age 18...

    Oh... did I mention, youth, talent, experience and results in my credentials comment above...? :evil

    Five Oz Safari starts... two wins, two seconds, one broken leg (2011) while leading...
    and a list of other Aussie cross country rally, desert race, MX and SX victories under his belt
  11. rmhrc628

    rmhrc628 Long timer

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  12. charapa

    charapa Been here awhile

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    But if geographics is the thing, then why not aonther Brazilian? Bluebull, you met sized them all up when you raced there... Who comes to mind for you? :deal
  13. rmhrc628

    rmhrc628 Long timer

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    Fucking tapatalk plus 3-4 asahis!!!!

    Anyway Troy my post was 3 questions for the GU RU:

    1. What will HRC do?

    2. What should HRC do?

    3. How much would it take to defect marco over from ktm?
    $1m, $3m or north of $10m? Why have all this commitment and not go full alien status? What's to lose? $30m if the japs fold up their cards in light of pretty tough circumstances?

    Imagine the momentum coma would generate ? It would be full blood rallye racing. Suddenly we'd have 2 titans fighting each other v helping each other. It would be 14 days of rallye war!
  14. too old

    too old Keen supporter

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    Hey guys let's not discount Helder, I know where his sights lay this year and it's not making up the numbers !:clap:clap:clap

    Go Helder :clap:clap:clap
  15. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Exactly... :nod

    My musings as to possible replacements, were with regards to securing competent "second tier" riders with which to replace the fallen team members of Sam and Felipe for Dakar in january... not contract negotiations to additonal "factory guns" for the future.

    Given that Helder is the teams "spearhead" rider (based on past form, results) and with Sam and Zanol out of action, logically (based on prior team hierachy/current form/previous results/resumé), one would assume that this would bump Pizzolito and JC up from the (previous) #4 and #5 spots on the roster... to team pos. #2 and #3.

    Question: bring in (one - or two) mercinaries from the Honda global fold, to pick up the #4 (and #5 ?) spots... :ear or just cut the losses and go with the three remaining; of the original five?

    As I said in previous post... statistically speaking; that is 40% less rider firepower/backup out on the course than originally planned for... Conversely, it means that the logistical resources already allocated (personel/mechanics etc.) can now be focussed on the job of getting three riders through the race instead of five (that's 33.3% input per entry as opposed as 20% per entry originally), which on paper maybe sounds good...

    But as someone else pointed out once... sometimes too many cooks in the kitchen can fcuk up the recipe? :wink:
  16. Flood

    Flood F5lood.

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    1. The most important thing is that Zanol will get better. Fingers crossed, good thoughts and F5 slow claps heading his way.

    2. Buying Coma or Despres is a no go, and I don't think HRC even really tried. They have career long commitments and deep personal connections with their handlers and mechanics. They won't leave big O at the end of their career to fix a new program that might take 3-4 years to produce a Dakar winner. They have a better chance of winning another title in '13 and/or '14 and then retire.

    3. HRC has a strategic problem now. If you look at the Rally Maroc stage listings, Sam and Felipe were the fast guys who could build up pressure and render quick assistance when necessary. Pizzolito and JC were way back most of the time, bringing up the rear.

    Helder is a semi-alien, but without great backup, he's back to where he was on his Yamaha.
  17. rmhrc628

    rmhrc628 Long timer

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    Tapatalk god willing;)

    HRC doesn't have a strategic problem - they have a nightmare scenario of effectively a 5 man team now really 1 man. As much as I love JC he's first to admit he's no alien. There is now far less 'pressure dispersement' and as such more stress on helder. Effectively there is a 66.66% reduction in the team of elite HRC riders. That calls for drastic measures.

    Economics always comes into it. Long term anyway. If I were HRC given how late it is in the game, I'd throw a bait to coma - see he if bites. LOTS to lose not much to gain. Give him $5m january money. Then come February HRC will have a dakar win or mondo experience.

    Btw does ANYONE actually know wtf happened to Sam and zanol ?

    Troy I would still like to hear your answers though. :)
  18. SafariBerg

    SafariBerg Oz Safari Addict

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    There is no way Coma would go elsewhere, nice newly minted 3 year contract, best team last decade, big bucks, money for nothing and chicks for free.............why would he even be tempted ?
  19. rmhrc628

    rmhrc628 Long timer

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    Honda shit all over ktm with money. HRC make the pumpkin company look like a fruit stand on the old Hume hwy.

    Why?

    Same reason anyone jumps - happens all the time in sport. Deepest pockets and biggest balls always wins. Fame fortune and reputation - winning Honda its first Dakar in 25 years, a smart accountant would structure the deal so that he gets a cut of every 450x sold from then on. Selling 25000 crf450x per year would quickly add up.

    Surely coma is not getting $3m per year from the pumpkin company? Rallye is not that big is it? Is it;)?

    Honda could rent him for a month. If he wins he has first right of refusal.

    Nothing to lose for HRC.
  20. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    As far as the exact circumstances/details surrounding Sam and Zanols testing accidents in California... it has been made crystal clear (to those in the loop) THAT public announcement is for the HONDA HRC Rally management to make... what details they subsequently release, and when that will be... only they know.