Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Rottweiler, Jul 16, 2008.
What's the gist of the diff between these two machines?
Is one believed "better" than the other?
The Reflex has better (more) internal storage and a little bit higher seating position.
The Reflex is a newer design, the Helix is really old, mid-eighties vintage.
The Helix is kind of funky looking, the Reflex is very sporty looking.
Running gear is similar but not exactly the same. Both are super reliable and durable. Somebody posted a Reflex odometer picture here with 80k miles! I own an '04 Reflex and can testify to its reliability. Just a great vehicle, gets 63 mpg commuting to work everyday 50 miles roundtrip.
I once saw a Helix on the interstate so they're also very roadworthy. Heard they are almost unkillable. Some guy ran a Reflex in the iron butt a few years ago and finished ahead of many larger bikes.
The Helix is quicker than a Reflex because the Reflex has a stepped variator that keeps its revs down until around 35-40 mph.
There is a mod that involves removing the low speed rollers from the variator that I think brings the Reflex back in line with the Helix acceleration. I have not done this mod, so I cant say for sure.
I also believe the Reflex has a higher top speed, don't know if its gearing, engine, aerodynamics or a combo of them all.
The Helix had a more relaxed riding position - like a Barcalounger on wheels. I thought that the Helix had more storage than the Reflex, but I've never really compared mine to a Reflex.
This is what popped into my mind when you mentioned "Honda Reflex". It was a good mid 80's dualsport.
Sorry for the thread hijack...
I've been looking for one of these!!!
I sat on both yesterday at my buddy's scooter store.
My long legs don't fit on the Reflex as well as the Helix.
I'm trying to figure this all out...
I rode a CFMOTO Helix clone. I despise the "bathtub" seating position (rear end flat on the floor, feet straight out.) Feels really off balance. To each his own, but I really, really don't like it.
Is the Reflex much more of an upright seating position? Can your lower legs be straight down like they're supposed to be?
That thing looks like a lot of fun, how do do the google on that without finding a bunch of scooters? (no offence) I want one too! :)
I sold my Helix to a friend, then bought a 2003 Reflex. Now we trade off during rides. Both are great bikes, even the dated looking Helix is a quick steering, fun mmachine. The problem for me with the Helix is that the more reclined seating position puts compressive forces on my spine, especially with the worn out shocks. With updated shocks and a drivers backrest I could ride for hours. Reflex feels more like a small motorcycle with better (but not great) suspension. Helix has more torque at midrange, while the Reflex has a slightly better top end. My Reflex does have the mod where you remove 3 of the six rollers-really needed to wake up the power band.
Is this the "K-Mod" ? I'd really like to know more about it. My Reflex is a bit sluggish and no where near as smooth as my Piaggio bv200. Does this mod rectify this? Any and all info on this mod is appreciated. I belong to the Yahoo Reflex site but can't stand the new design Yahoo is doing of their boards.
Removing the three rollers is the K-Mod and it works wonders. You do have to "make" a tool to do the job, but it is easy. Once you build the tool, the job itself is pretty easy too. If you want to enjoy your Reflex you MUST do this mod.
And yes... Yahoo groups used to suck - now that they have introduced the new design, they STILL SUCK.
Unfortuneately, the K mod really must be done. I did not make any special tool,,,I used an electric impact gun, being carefull to not overtighten the variator nut. The horribly formatted yahoo Reflex site has a files section to the left with great instructions. I will lend whatever advice you need also.
There is a variation on the "K-Mod". While the original says to remove three of the six weighted rollers (three are one weight, the other three are heavier/lighter), the variation says to replace those three weighted rollers with weighted rollers of equal weight. That is, instead of ending up with three weighted rollers in the variator, you end up with 6 weighted rollers (all of equal weight). That might be the way the Big Ruckus is set up (not sure tho).
I've heard of this somewhere too. Is the K-mod the removal of the three heavy rollers? I will do some research on this and maybe attempt it over winter. I took the scoot out today for a little ride and it felt nearly as smooth as the Piaggio. Maybe it's breaking in a bit. It only has about 2500 miles. I do think the weak link is the transmission on this scoot. Not that there is anything "wrong" with it, just that it can be better.
Can you describe the difference of pre K-mod to post k-mod? From what Bruce (the guy that thought this up) says , the scooter will be exactly the same from 50mph on up. The performance change takes place from 0-50 mph. Does this make the scoot accelerate smoother? Quicker? I'd love to hear a comparison. My Piaggio feels "electric smooth" by comparison. Not that the Reflex is rough, it just doesn't feel as refined.
Go to the Yahoo site, the "files" section has extensive test comparisons. Basically show good improvement with the k-mod in the midrange and a tiny degradation of high end. Seat of the pants is that there is good improvement and worth doing.
Again, the formatting of the yahoo site is an embarrassment...they should simply go to a typical format, such as this forum.
Bruce Koehler (mr Reflex and seemingly in the know about all Reflex topics) says to not use all 6 ramps in the variator as the ramp angle of the 3 that are left vacant in the k-mod will degrade performance regardless of the weight of the rollers.
If you're not a member of that Yahoo Group I don't think you'll be able to see or access the Files section (that contains the K-Mod document).
gizmo: I'm sorry, I don't recall if the three weighted rollers are the heavy ones or the light ones. To be honest, it may not even say which are which in the document. The difference is that the acceleration is smother between 10-30 mph. With all the rollers in the variator, there's a "flat spot" in that speed range. It's noticeable enough to be able to feel the difference (at least I could) after the mod. But, yes, over 50 mph, there's no change.
The 3 black rollers are removed, while the beige are left in their original ramps - ramps are marked for color...black or beige. So, remove the black ones and feel better acceleration.