Honda Reflex vs Helix

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Rottweiler, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. Rottweiler

    Rottweiler I'm a Believer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Heber Springs, Arkansas, USA
    What's the gist of the diff between these two machines?

    Is one believed "better" than the other?
    #1
  2. Dranrab Luap

    Dranrab Luap E-Tarded Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    32,189
    Location:
    Louisissippi Coast
    The Reflex has better (more) internal storage and a little bit higher seating position.
    #2
  3. DR650Keith

    DR650Keith Motorcycle Nutjob

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Oddometer:
    74
    Location:
    Katy, Texas
    The Reflex is a newer design, the Helix is really old, mid-eighties vintage.
    The Helix is kind of funky looking, the Reflex is very sporty looking.
    Running gear is similar but not exactly the same. Both are super reliable and durable. Somebody posted a Reflex odometer picture here with 80k miles! I own an '04 Reflex and can testify to its reliability. Just a great vehicle, gets 63 mpg commuting to work everyday 50 miles roundtrip.
    I once saw a Helix on the interstate so they're also very roadworthy. Heard they are almost unkillable. Some guy ran a Reflex in the iron butt a few years ago and finished ahead of many larger bikes.
    #3
  4. Ogre_fl

    Ogre_fl Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,402
    Location:
    Cook Bayou, FL
    The Helix is quicker than a Reflex because the Reflex has a stepped variator that keeps its revs down until around 35-40 mph.

    There is a mod that involves removing the low speed rollers from the variator that I think brings the Reflex back in line with the Helix acceleration. I have not done this mod, so I cant say for sure.

    I also believe the Reflex has a higher top speed, don't know if its gearing, engine, aerodynamics or a combo of them all.
    #4
  5. m chops

    m chops n00b

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5
    The Helix had a more relaxed riding position - like a Barcalounger on wheels. I thought that the Helix had more storage than the Reflex, but I've never really compared mine to a Reflex.
    #5
  6. RideAbout

    RideAbout Mentally Retired

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,851
    Location:
    Oregon
    This is what popped into my mind when you mentioned "Honda Reflex". It was a good mid 80's dualsport.

    Sorry for the thread hijack...

    [​IMG]
    #6
  7. Rusty Rocket

    Rusty Rocket Life behind "Bars"

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Oddometer:
    10,048
    Location:
    Trying to leave CT
    I've been looking for one of these!!!
    #7
  8. ernest t bass

    ernest t bass Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    443
    Location:
    point loma, california
    I sat on both yesterday at my buddy's scooter store.

    My long legs don't fit on the Reflex as well as the Helix.
    #8
  9. Rottweiler

    Rottweiler I'm a Believer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    365
    Location:
    Heber Springs, Arkansas, USA
    I'm trying to figure this all out...

    I rode a CFMOTO Helix clone. I despise the "bathtub" seating position (rear end flat on the floor, feet straight out.) Feels really off balance. To each his own, but I really, really don't like it.

    Is the Reflex much more of an upright seating position? Can your lower legs be straight down like they're supposed to be?
    #9
  10. xymotic

    xymotic Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    8,368
    Location:
    Federal Way, WA
    That thing looks like a lot of fun, how do do the google on that without finding a bunch of scooters? (no offence) I want one too! :)
    #10
  11. Lammy1000

    Lammy1000 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Oddometer:
    47
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    I sold my Helix to a friend, then bought a 2003 Reflex. Now we trade off during rides. Both are great bikes, even the dated looking Helix is a quick steering, fun mmachine. The problem for me with the Helix is that the more reclined seating position puts compressive forces on my spine, especially with the worn out shocks. With updated shocks and a drivers backrest I could ride for hours. Reflex feels more like a small motorcycle with better (but not great) suspension. Helix has more torque at midrange, while the Reflex has a slightly better top end. My Reflex does have the mod where you remove 3 of the six rollers-really needed to wake up the power band.
    #11
  12. gizmo309

    gizmo309 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    90
    Is this the "K-Mod" ? I'd really like to know more about it. My Reflex is a bit sluggish and no where near as smooth as my Piaggio bv200. Does this mod rectify this? Any and all info on this mod is appreciated. I belong to the Yahoo Reflex site but can't stand the new design Yahoo is doing of their boards.

    Bob
    #12
  13. The PacRat

    The PacRat I'm that other guy

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,750
    Location:
    the Poison Oak Patch
    Removing the three rollers is the K-Mod and it works wonders. You do have to "make" a tool to do the job, but it is easy. Once you build the tool, the job itself is pretty easy too. If you want to enjoy your Reflex you MUST do this mod.

    And yes... Yahoo groups used to suck - now that they have introduced the new design, they STILL SUCK.
    #13
  14. Lammy1000

    Lammy1000 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Oddometer:
    47
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Unfortuneately, the K mod really must be done. I did not make any special tool,,,I used an electric impact gun, being carefull to not overtighten the variator nut. The horribly formatted yahoo Reflex site has a files section to the left with great instructions. I will lend whatever advice you need also.
    #14
  15. Bronco638

    Bronco638 Nobody Home

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,334
    Location:
    Itasca, IL
    There is a variation on the "K-Mod". While the original says to remove three of the six weighted rollers (three are one weight, the other three are heavier/lighter), the variation says to replace those three weighted rollers with weighted rollers of equal weight. That is, instead of ending up with three weighted rollers in the variator, you end up with 6 weighted rollers (all of equal weight). That might be the way the Big Ruckus is set up (not sure tho).
    #15
  16. gizmo309

    gizmo309 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    90
    I've heard of this somewhere too. Is the K-mod the removal of the three heavy rollers? I will do some research on this and maybe attempt it over winter. I took the scoot out today for a little ride and it felt nearly as smooth as the Piaggio. Maybe it's breaking in a bit. It only has about 2500 miles. I do think the weak link is the transmission on this scoot. Not that there is anything "wrong" with it, just that it can be better.

    Bob
    #16
  17. gizmo309

    gizmo309 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    90
    Can you describe the difference of pre K-mod to post k-mod? From what Bruce (the guy that thought this up) says , the scooter will be exactly the same from 50mph on up. The performance change takes place from 0-50 mph. Does this make the scoot accelerate smoother? Quicker? I'd love to hear a comparison. My Piaggio feels "electric smooth" by comparison. Not that the Reflex is rough, it just doesn't feel as refined.

    Thanks- Bob
    #17
  18. Lammy1000

    Lammy1000 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Oddometer:
    47
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Go to the Yahoo site, the "files" section has extensive test comparisons. Basically show good improvement with the k-mod in the midrange and a tiny degradation of high end. Seat of the pants is that there is good improvement and worth doing.

    Again, the formatting of the yahoo site is an embarrassment...they should simply go to a typical format, such as this forum.

    Bruce Koehler (mr Reflex and seemingly in the know about all Reflex topics) says to not use all 6 ramps in the variator as the ramp angle of the 3 that are left vacant in the k-mod will degrade performance regardless of the weight of the rollers.
    #18
  19. Bronco638

    Bronco638 Nobody Home

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,334
    Location:
    Itasca, IL
    If you're not a member of that Yahoo Group I don't think you'll be able to see or access the Files section (that contains the K-Mod document).

    gizmo: I'm sorry, I don't recall if the three weighted rollers are the heavy ones or the light ones. To be honest, it may not even say which are which in the document. The difference is that the acceleration is smother between 10-30 mph. With all the rollers in the variator, there's a "flat spot" in that speed range. It's noticeable enough to be able to feel the difference (at least I could) after the mod. But, yes, over 50 mph, there's no change.
    #19
  20. Lammy1000

    Lammy1000 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Oddometer:
    47
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    The 3 black rollers are removed, while the beige are left in their original ramps - ramps are marked for color...black or beige. So, remove the black ones and feel better acceleration.
    #20