Honda won't charge

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by YOUNZ, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b

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    The regulator has a spring pushing the arm up. When the arm is up the field coil is getting the most power that it gets (the wire to the field coil goes through just PART of the wire-wound resistor. When the electromagnet gets 13V it pulls the arm down and the field coil gets less power -- the circuit to the field coil is going through the ENTIRE wire-wound resistor.

    The voltage is adjustable. The screw through the upright puts more tension or less tension on the spring. You MAY need to turn the screw IN to increase the tension on the spring to make sure the field coil gets more juice. I'm not saying this is recommended because it's a pain to get the tension just right i.e. ride with a meter on and see where the regulator steps the voltage down then turn the screw . . . .

    EDIT: But I didn't answer your question. You can't manually close the points because they're closed up and they're closed down.

    EDIT AGAIN: My error for using the terms "up" and "down". I did a lot of work with a couple of regulators on my bench. On the motorcycle, left corresponds to my up and right corresponds to my down. Or you can just imagine your regulator on the workbench and my terminology will be impeccable.
    #21
  2. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    Grinnin... your posts make sense now that I see the rotor, as you said, the field induces the rotor and the rotor induces the stator. I've seen a lot of generators, but not quite like that.

    you should be able to put battery power on the field coil with jumpers to bypass the regulator and give you an unregulated output. one field lead to battery plus the other to minus. even the polarity won't matter

    points style regulators typically give full field through the closed points. the resistor is in parallel with the points and when system voltage is reached, the points open which puts the resister in series with the field. this will reduce the field's strength.

    another way to check the rectifier and the stator is to use a clamp on amp meter if you have one. put the clamp on to the output to the battery (from the rectifier) and set it on AC. run the engine and turn on everything electrical. bad parts will give pulsing DC that the meter reads as AC. There normally is a slight pulsing DC on top of the rectified output but any reading over about 1/2 amp AC is bad.

    if you have an Oscope...

    normal ripple:
    [​IMG]

    bad diode:
    [​IMG]

    bad stator coil:
    [​IMG]
    #22
  3. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b

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    It's odd and fascinating, isn't it?

    You're right, the regulator DOES include a short-circuit around the resistor. I either didn't know that or had simply forgotten it.
    #23
  4. YOUNZ

    YOUNZ Been here awhile

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    I'll see if I can find a rectifier and try it.
    #24
  5. YOUNZ

    YOUNZ Been here awhile

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    It is said many parts are interchangeable with the Gold Wing of the era!
    #25
  6. YOUNZ

    YOUNZ Been here awhile

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    Beezer, you say energise the field coil. It has 2 wires, a green and a white? How would one measure the output? Would you need to bypass the regulator system? This type is a very different system. Albeit, it may be a good design. I am not an electronics guy.
    #26
  7. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    well if you connect the field to the battery. the generator will give full (unregulated) output. the voltage will rise with the RPM if the field coil is good and the stator is good. it could go as high as 40-50 volts so be careful doing this test

    the field windings measure in the 4-8 ohms range, whatever color the wires are. I think one is white & the other appears to be green. hook one wire to battery plus and the other to ground.

    measure the VOLTAGE as you run the engine. if the output voltage rises with RPM & goes high, then the field and (probably) the stator are good, if not then one of them is bad.... probably the stator if the field measured something like 8 ohms & is not shorted to ground in it's own case/frame. the voltage can go as high as 40 or even more so don't dally at high outputs or the lights will cook

    do this test & if it fails it is either the stator or the field windings. if it passes then the problem is the rectifier, the regulator, or the wires to those systems. there are other tests to identify the problem from here.
    #27
  8. YOUNZ

    YOUNZ Been here awhile

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    Been dealing with rain issues and a wet floor in me shed. Evan Grist over at Race Tech Electric is trying to work me up a modern solid state volt reg/rectifier unit more specific to this unusual alternator. He said this thread was very helpful.
    Hope to conclude this event in a few days.
    #28
  9. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    kool. as odd as this system seems, the regulator part is pretty straight forward. just about any 12v regulator from an automotive system could be made to work.

    did you try bypassing the reg by hooking the field straight to the battery?
    #29
  10. YOUNZ

    YOUNZ Been here awhile

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    I'm back into it again. Been using the fine 400a lately.
    On the 750a, the regulator/ rectifier has been replaced by a solid state unit from Race Tech Electric as well as a good used stator, donated from one of our own here. New battery, just in case, no signs of corrosion anywhere, so far. Still 12.5 max output. I will try replacing the field coil, may be weak?
    #30