Honda XR500R-1984 Reviving

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Ivanych, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. okeydokey

    okeydokey Adventurer

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    Ivan, have you got (or can you take :wink: ) the measurement from the crank web to the end of the 'stub' on the stator side for both the xl and xr cranks?

    The xl crank i have is from an electric start model and i believe this is longer still :eek1 It is approx 84mm the one i have!

    I am now toying with having this xl crank machined to the xr500 profile and using the xr engine cases. Maybe the whole stator side and use original size xr bearings or just get it shortened and use a modified bearing from list (40x80x18 iirc) on the xl sizing.

    I got lost on the balance bearing side of things, not sure if it was this thread or another, but are the counter balance bearings the same on both the xl and xr?

    btw carillo still have the 83/84 xr500 spec conrod on their database :clap The only problem is no-one seems to have any big end roller bearings or thrustwashers :cry seems they are an odd honda size. Surprise surprise!
  2. Ivanych

    Ivanych Ivanych

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    Hi guys!
    These lost 6 mm. were found
    They were hiding in the cover of the stator 600.

    1. Which thickness (size) of the left crankcase a XL600? (from the main connectors to cover the stator) - 74.5mm - XR500r=75.0
    2.What size (depth) in the cover the stator (of connectors up to supports the stator)XL600? - 22.0mm - XR500r=16.0

    Thanks to Bruce and Jim for the done measurement!!
    Okeydokey Special thanks for the info on the left of the crankshaft bearing!!

    Сrafty Japanese engineers - Hooray!

    Hi, Okeydokey !
    I can make accurate measurements tomorrow.
    But I know for sure - the crankshaft XL600 (LM, RM) electric starter has a more long end on the side of the stator than XL600R. And I'm sure he has a insult of 80 mm.\
    [​IMG]

    Balancer shaft bearing XR500=XL600R (83-84) - 17x42x12,
    XR600R (85 -) - 16x44x13

    Your idea of ​​using a bearing to set XL600 crankshaft it is wonderful.:clap:clap:clap:clap
    Installing the crankshaft looks quite easy now.
    I will sleep poorly now, and I will dream about the 600.:lol3
    New bearing and XL/XR600 stator cover solve all problem!

    (My New XL/XR600 stator cover is on its way to me. :wink:)

    But there is one small problem.
    We must do mechanical processing hole cylinder sleeve in the left crankcase for installation of 100 mm. sleeve.

    I'm not sure about the size of the connecting rod in the information from Carrillo.
    I have a picture and I see there other than the size of the library information.
    [​IMG]

    length between centres 134mm or 133mm?????
    Correct me if I am wrong.
  3. okeydokey

    okeydokey Adventurer

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    Hmm always thought it was 134mm :huh Still, i suppose they sold a few of them someone must have queried it somewhere?

    Currently struggling with the counter balance and bearings it seems the xl600 one i have, used bearings 16x42x13. 1mm thicker than the xr500 bearing and 1mm smaller bore.

    I cannot find a 12mm wide bearing as the xr500 and have measured the xl counter balance and it is longer than the xr one by 2mm which is complicating thinga a little. The xl balance is marked MK4 and is similar to the one you have pictured above with the double tooth cog. The xr500 balance is lightened on the cog and is generally smaller as you know. I wonder on the complications with the engine of using the xr500 balance in place of the heavier 600 one? :norton

    Have we any specs or pictures of the xl600r counter balance and bearings?
  4. okeydokey

    okeydokey Adventurer

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    Hold that counter balance length!! Just measured again and yes the overall length is different but the extra is confined to the bearing surface 1mm longer either end hence the wider bearing :evil

    xr500 counter balance weighs 1Kg
    xl600 counter balance weighs 1.2Kg (measured on the kitchen scales :lol3)

    xr500 crankshaft weight ??
    xl600 crankshaft weight approx 5Kg (measured on the bathroom scales :rofl)

    What is difference in crankshaft weights inc. conrod? So many ideas running, need research and info time.
  5. okeydokey

    okeydokey Adventurer

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    Thoughts currently bouncing round in my bonce :norton

    All this through the xr500r conrod situation :cry
    Sure buying another crankshaft is an option, but am trying here to have a rebuildable crank with the more readily available 600 conrods. I personally have decided to go 600cc for ease.

    In the absense of 12mm counter balance bearings machine crankcase counter balance bearing seats 1mm deeper and us readily available 13mm thickness bearings available in both sizes to suit xl600 and xr500 counter balance. This maybe a necessity anyway as 12mm thickness bearing is an odd size and not readily available. There is enough material in the crankcase to achieve this btw.

    Have xl600 crankshaft, stator side, re-worked to match xr500 and fit with original size crankshaft bearings.

    Have xl600 cranshaft shortened and semi re-worked to match xr500 and fit different bearing stator side.

    Fit complete xl600 top end (barrel, piston and head), with re-worked xl600 crank and xl600 counter balance, slightly modified crankcase mouth (for 600 barrel). This increases rotating mass significantly and i am wondering wether the 500 cases are suitable.

    Fit complete xl600 top end, with reworked xl600 crank but crankshaft lightened to xr500 weight using either bearing configuration and use xr500 counter balance. This reduces rotating mass and in general you would end up with a big bore xr500r.

    The differences in piston weights would be an advantage here aswell :1drink

    Any extra thoughts would be good here :D

    Hope you understand my ramblings here Ivan. I could have added to my own xr thread but as we seem to be in a very similar position engine wise............


    JE forged xr600 piston +3mm o/s (623cc) = 380g
    wiseco xr500 piston +1mm o/s approx 400g

    The 600 piston lighter?
  6. Ivanych

    Ivanych Ivanych

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    Wait!
    I do not have time to digest the (translated and soobradat), sorry!!:eek1
  7. Ivanych

    Ivanych Ivanych

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    Here are a few thoughts about the balancer and 600 crankshaft.
    1. We should use the 600 balancer with 600 crankshaft. (use 500 balancer with 600 crankshaft add vibration)
    2. There porridge (confusion) of the 600 balancers and bearings.
    3. Bearing 17x42x12 balancer set to XR500R and XR600R (1983-1984, 85 - ....? - Black motors, and maybe what that red motors, but I'm not sure)
    4. Black and red in Evroppe motors (1985.....) with electric start engines have XR600R motors (80 mm. insult) and should have a bearing balancer 16x44x13.
    5. Bearing 17x42x12 can still be found for purchase. - http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeI...00R/GroupID/429450/Group/BALANCER_SHAFT_82-83
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/CR480-Elsin...Parts_Accessories&hash=item564fd5d124&vxp=mtr
    6. Most balancing shafts 600 are double gear, but XR600r equipped with balancer with full star sometimes.
    7. I do not like the idea of machining the crankcase.
    There is a standard bearing 17x42x13 (1742). This bearing can be mounted without the refinement crankcase, but needs tweaking balancer.
    My photo above contains XR500R and XBR500 Balancing shaft. I thought XBR500 crankshaft and Balancing shaft will be like XR500, but they look like a XL600. I was surprised. This balancer XBR500 is designed for a 16x44x13 bearings.
    Ugh my brain explode now, I have to rest a bit.:1drink

    This Honda 91005-MG3-003 BEARING (17X42X12) is also used on these models and components:
    http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-91005-MG3-003.html

    This Honda 91005-MK4-701 BEARING (16X44X13) is also used on these models and components:
    http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-91005-MK4-701.html
  8. Ivanych

    Ivanych Ivanych

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    okeydokey, I made ​​measurements XL600 end of the 'stub' of the crankshaft on the side of the stator - this size=63.5 - 64.0 mm.
  9. Ivanych

    Ivanych Ivanych

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    This is another one of my crazy winter project - put a new camshaft XR600R (2000) in the old XR500R head.:lol3
    See the photos
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Two new rocker, machining head cover and insert the plug into the extra hole in the camshaft - this is necessary for the proper operation of the new camshaft!
    What do you think?
  10. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    Are you going to have to machine the cam locating dowel hole further out? Kinda hard to tell by the pic.
    If you get that sorted, you can probably use a later (single carb) rocker cover assembly or maybe just use the later rockers in your cover?
  11. Ivanych

    Ivanych Ivanych

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    I have XR600R (86) of the cylinder head cover and I want to do machining cover to installation the wide (curve) rocker.

    [​IMG]
    I've seen it here
    http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18297348&postcount=5632

    But I have a hope to get NX650 cover in Russia, and I will not do the machining.:wink:
    My camshaft has a single fault on the cam (scratch). Scratch is not much but it will kill the rocker after a while, I think. I want to have spare rockers and camshaft always near. (Be able to buy at any time)

    I can do the update (sputtering) camshaft in Russia, but it will cost $ 200. New OEM shaft - 122$.
    This is beneficial for me!:lol3
    But the most important thing - it's very interesting (how it will work)!! :eek1


    I think the trick is going to work.
  12. okeydokey

    okeydokey Adventurer

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    Hello Ivan, That is an interesting plan :norton

    I have just dropped my xl600 crank off at engineers for new conrod and stator side machine work, keeping the larger stator side bearing :wink:

    I asked on xr500 crank if no other alternative than machine work, and he agreed in principle to fit xl600 conrod with stepped down 600 crank pin to fit 500 crank web and to machine web for wider 600 conrod. Then to sleeve small end from xl600 24mm down to xr500 22mm would work. :evil

    Now need to find money for new 600 piston! :cry But which i wonder? :1drink
  13. Ivanych

    Ivanych Ivanych

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    Hi!
    You reduce the diameter end ( place bearing) of your XL600 crankshaft from Ф40 to Ф35 мм.??


    You should check the amount of movement (stroke) piston your XL600 crank shaft (75 or 80). Pistons will have a different thickness from the top.
    Your XL600 crankshaft of the engine with electric start?

    Show off photos of your work and parts!

    Jazz up your thread!
  14. OldRedSA

    OldRedSA n00b

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    Hi Ivan what happend to re rest of this tread?
  15. mckelljr

    mckelljr n00b

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    HI! I am trying to ajust my valves on my 1984 xr500r and I don't have a service manual! Would anybody happen to have an electronic version?
    Thanks so much