HOT! - 690 Thermoswitch - All 690's run HOT!

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Spearo, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. Spearo

    Spearo Offshore

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Oddometer:
    27
    First Post...
    the mega-thread is looooooong although, I think I've seen every page.


    My Issue:

    The KTM 690 runs hot!

    I need for this to stay a focused thread about where to get a 85/80 thermoswitch in the US? Every thumper forum has a topic started on this subject although, no US source is listed to purchase the component.

    The bike is running as it was designed... HOT! There is nothing wrong with the cooling system, let's get that straight.

    It is designed to run hot with the stock exhaust (catalytic converter) to keep the emissions levels low. A blistering hot catalytic converter ensures all the fuel is consumed.

    I no longer use the stock exhaust as it melted anything that got near it.

    There is a youtube video of a guy cooking an egg and pancake on the stock 690 exhaust. Normal? KTM thinks so...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiWjoXP01YQ

    ******************************************
    Some facts about the 690 radiator fan thermoswitch:

    It is not a 14-mm thread. Use a 24-mm wrench to screw it into the 690's radiator.

    The switch in the 690 is manufactured by Nippon Thermostat Corporation Limited (NTCL) of Japan.

    http://bayimg.com/iaaOhaaCE

    The stock switch turns on only once the coolant temperature has reached 102-<nobr>degrees</nobr> Celsius. Who know what the oil temperature is at that point... breaking down...

    The manual states normal operating temperature is 4-11 Bars as indicated on the gauge cluster. The stock switch activates the radiator fan at 11-Bars (102-degrees). The manual states 12-bars equals Overheating. No room for warning of a problem!

    There are a few round-about ways to get a lower temperature switch:

    <nobr>Ebay</nobr>:
    The switch offered through E-bay turns on at 88-degrees Celsius. Cost = $60.

    KTM West (Germany):
    They have the switch I want to find via a US source. It is the fabled 85/80 switch. Cost = $60 shipped.

    Does anyone have a KTM part number or a US source for the 85/80 thermoswitch to fit the 690 radiator????????

    Stock Switch Pics:

    http://bayimg.com/IaaOkaAcE

    http://bayimg.com/iaAoLAaCe
    #1
  2. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second...

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,746
    Location:
    On the Ground Laughing
    maybe a stupid q but what is wrong with the one from Ebay?.....low quality?
    #2
  3. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Oddometer:
    12,526
    Location:
    NWA
    I guess he doesn't want to wait till it hits 88 degrees before the fan kicks on. I'm guessing that's why he wants one that kicks the fan on at 80 - 85.
    #3
  4. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,008
    Location:
    sanity?
    The stock muffler has a catalyst inside of it so it is normal for it to get as hot as it does.
    #4
  5. Spearo

    Spearo Offshore

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Oddometer:
    27
    As stated, The stock exhaust has been removed and I simply don't care about the emission standard KTM designed the OEM system to satisfy.

    I want the system running cooler to alleviate the thermal cycling of the 10w60 hence, Does anybody have a US source or part number equivalent of the fabled 85/80 thermoswitch with "18 mm" threads??

    Sticky side down!

    Spearo
    #5
  6. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,008
    Location:
    sanity?
    My suggestion is thus: take a digital ohm meter and measure the resistance across the stock temp switch at room temperature. Warm the bike up to 4 or 5 bars and then remeasure the resistance across the switch. The resistance will either go up or down. That switch looks a lot like the one in Saab 900's which is an NTC style....negative temperature coefficient sensor...as in I believe the resistance increases as the temperature does...looks like this:

    [​IMG]


    Knowing the resistance range and the type of the sensor will make it easier to understand how to do a mod. Or just use the ebay kit everyone mentions....though in the big post someone listed a part number for the lower temp switch.
    #6
  7. Spearo

    Spearo Offshore

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Oddometer:
    27
    Hi Seth,

    I am well familiar with electronics and I do not believe the switch is resistive. It is my understanding that it is a thermal momentary contact switch which operates due to the coefficient of thermal expansion which the mechanism internal to the thermoswitch is comprised.

    I also believe that the thermoswitch listed by crazybrit in the MEGA-thread utilizes a 14mm threads and is custom drilled/tapped into an 18mm-threaded plug.


    Update:
    Seth... I just put an ohm-meter to the switch and it is (NO) Normally Open at room temperature.

    Does anybody have a US source or part number equivalent of the fabled 85/80 thermoswitch with "18 mm" threads??

    The search continues,

    Spearo
    #7
  8. Dewtwo

    Dewtwo old trail rider!

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Oddometer:
    104
    Location:
    Mid-MO
    #8
  9. Spearo

    Spearo Offshore

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Oddometer:
    27
    I ordered the E-bay thermoswitch and was not impressed with what I received. I asked for specific clarification that I would receive an 85-degree switch. The switch I received from E-bay came with a POS stamped O-ring and the switch is stamped 88-ON. Do not use the E-bay o-ring.

    With the 88-deg switch the KTM 690SMC fan turns ON at 8-bars although, I feel ripped off. Ahhh… just another E-Bay customer!

    For laughs I un-earthed my ATV out of the mountain of crap in the outside garage. There I found the answer to my reason for starting this thread.

    Green – 88-deg ON : LTZ400
    Blue – 102-deg ON : 690SMC
    Red – 88-deg ON : “The Ebay Switch”

    Stop getting ripped off by E-Bay and get a thermoswitch for a Suzuki LTZ400. The Suzuki LTZ400 is a Kawasaki KFX-400 is an Arctic Cat DVX-400. Suzuki makes it and sells it to Kawasaki and Arctic cat, It is a very good 400cc Sport ATV.

    The Green switch in the picture is from my 2006 Suzuki LTZ-400. You should be able to get it from any Suzuki, Kawasaki or Arctic Cat dealer for $40-US. Use the KTM o-ring with it.

    Down with E-bay…

    DaNewbie

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    #9
  10. MymoJoe

    MymoJoe Ride Ride Ride

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    3,398
    Location:
    Fernvale QLD not close enough to the desert
    I haven't seen 4 bars on my 2009 690R Aussie model...

    have they (KTM) fixed this problem...
    #10
  11. bobzilla

    bobzilla Dirty Old Man

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,079
    Location:
    Lost & Found again in the Great Basin
    Thats cause your havin winter down there now:lol3
    Air temp here today was 104f thats = 4 bars :rofl
    #11
  12. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Oddometer:
    6,217
    Location:
    Orygun
    All other issues aside, oil does not break down at 102 deg. celsius.

    That is just about right for oil. You want at least 80C/180F and up to 120C/250F is okay, but approaching the upper end for non-synthetic oil.

    I see 80C/180F all the time on my Ducati, and it is not unusual for to see 100C/212F or more on a hot day, especially in traffic.
    #12
  13. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,008
    Location:
    sanity?

    When I did the TAT on my 950 I saw temps around 110 degrees F in Oklahoma...the bike would actually stay at normal temperature as long as you were riding at road speeds. It warmed up quite fast once you started to work it though.
    #13
  14. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike n00b

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    0
    Location:
    AB
    Yeah, but the 102C we're talking about is the coolant temperature, not the oil temperature. If the coolant is at 102C, then how hot is the oil? 110C? 120C? More?

    And just because the fan comes on at 102C doesn't mean the coolant never gets hotter than 102C.
    #14
  15. bass_on_tap

    bass_on_tap Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Oddometer:
    6,307
    Location:
    Ro' di-lan
    try this, found it over on KTMtalk site, it's for the smaller dirt bikes but with a little research you can determine if it applies to the 690 also.
    "Go to the PartsGeek.com website. Click on '84 BMW 318i auto. Then click on 'Auxilliary Fan Switch' under the 'Cooling System' category. These are the correct thermo-sensors for KTM's. These BMW sensors are available at <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">NAPA</st1:place></st1:City> or Kragen or Parts Geek pretty cheap."

    http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1984/bmw/318i/cooling_system/auxiliary_fan_switch.html

    Good luck. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #15
  16. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Oddometer:
    6,217
    Location:
    Orygun
    That is true. But if you don't measure you don't know. You can't assume that if the coolant is 200 to 220F that the oil is too hot. The only way to know for sure would be to have an oil temp gauge/readout.

    Personally I think bikes should have a number of engine status readouts that are more important than a tach (not just idiot lights - but at least idiot lights, but if you have idiot lights you have a sensor and you can have a readout.):

    Oil pressure
    Oil temp
    If water cooled then coolant temp
    Battery voltage.
    A fuel gauge that actually works.
    An odometer

    I would give up the tach and speedo on my Duck if I could get oil pressure, batt. voltage and a fuel gauge that works as well as the one in my car - but with modern electronics there is no reason to no have all of these and just switch between modes.

    My Whoosaburger has no tach, only a speedo, an hour meter, a clock and various odos.
    #16
  17. svracer01

    svracer01 Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    10
    ive got an 07 SM and i followed your advice and got an 07 LTZ400 fan switch. i was changing the coolant anyway so i drained it all, changed the switch, refilled and then brought the bike up to temp. all the way up to 9 bars.....still no fan.
    any suggestion?
    #17
  18. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,461
    Location:
    On a RTW ride - currently touring the U.S.
    Is the fan fuse good? You can check if it's the switches fault by simply connecting the wires.
    #18
  19. alongat

    alongat Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,693
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
  20. Brown Dog

    Brown Dog North Georgia Dual Sportr

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,012
    Location:
    Calhoun, GA. USA
    My Ebay switch took a dump & wont turn the fan on :cry
    #20