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Discussion in 'Vendors' started by Poolside, Mar 12, 2011.
Why chance how your words would be construed? Why leave anything up to interpretation? Why didn't you just say "I accept the terms of sale"?
One can only assume the "What the fuck am I supposed to say" that they were looking for was "I accept the terms (of sale)". It doesn't seem all that hard to put those words together. You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. Why didn't you just write the words? It sounds like instead of accepting the terms, you imposed terms of your own that Poolside wasn't willing to accept.
The issue wasn't whether or not you could read and understand the terms, the issue was that you never "accepted the terms". Nothing in your quote can be construed as an acceptance of the terms. In fact it sounds to me like you were going out of your way not to accept the terms which would have raised a bunch of red flags if it had been me.
Look, we get it. Your old, old fashioned and pissed. Check. Hey, I'm old too, so I can relate to how you feel. But it was your choice not to say the words. Accepting the terms was the condition of the sale - you never accepted the terms - so there was no deal, no sale, your check was returned, no harm, no foul.
You never accepted the terms and your check was never cashed. So what is it that makes you think you "had a deal"? These guys are not a business with lawyers and insurance. They had clear conditions / terms to their offering. It's pretty cut and dry from where I stand. You were in the wrong. Poolside stuck to his guns. In retrospect, I think he made the right decision. You really should let this go because your aren't helping your case by quoting the correspondence.
FWIW - I bought the unit as well, via PayPal. I know I cannot cancel the order, return the unit for any reason or get a refund. I also know the unit may not work to my expectations. I also know that I might not get the next product even though I want it. I accepted the terms and accept that it might not work for me. If that happens, I'll be out $72.50. But at least I'll maintain my self-respect.
I can't believe I actually read through five pages of this bullshit.
Heh heh, I hear that. Popular stuff though. 2000+ views over the last day!
Opened this thread for the same reason I open any other on GSpot. Sounds cool, maybe something I can do to/for/on my bike. As an FNG around these parts I have been the beneficiary of the wisdom that makes this place great (including wisdom from Poolside) but the difference with this thread is: Poolside is selling something.
The rules are pretty clear (http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14789774&postcount=1):
9. No Spam. Selling your own junk is cool but limited to the Flea Market. Selling multiple items of the same product is considered a sale by vendor, so Vendor forum. Soliciting inmates via Private Message is spam. If it's not related to motorcycling, it's spam. If we see it we nuke it and probably you.
Why don't the rules apply to everyone? It appears this thread should have been punted to Vendors a while ago......
+1000. Especially the part about Mr. Cob posting text that clearing shows he never accepted the terms.
And for the second time in my illustrious Mod career I get to say
Don't You Know Who I Am?
Holy smokes, did I just read the script to a satire? Is George Costanza trying to buy motorcycle parts on the internet now?
I was trying to sign up for Paypal, but it was tough. It wanted to know my name, address, e-mail, and a password. I think I had to type in my bank account number somewhere.
So I just gave up and said to hell with this BS I'm just going to ride my motorbike and never buy anything again.
I've been away for a few days. WOW.
All I can say is that the the days of "honor" and "man of word" passed when mule trading was common.
My last job involved expensive CAD software for designing electronic hardware that would cost up to a half million dollars for a SINGLE SEAT.
The license agreement specified that if you used the software and a 'bug' caused you to eat many thousands of dollars after fabrication of the design...
It was your problem - not the company that sold you the software.
That is the norm for software and many other licensing agreements.
Accept or not. The buyers choice.
And, I myself couldn't care less about an $80 'chance'.
After seeing some people blow $300 in an evening at the pub buying lotto tickets...
I feel much safer with this risk than that sort of 'gullibility tax'.
Ladies, Ladies...Youre BOTH pretty. Now, we done?
Poolside- OK, got it, but it degenerated at some point there. The beginning of the thread was fascinating and as I said, I and my bike, have been direct beneficiaries of your knowledge in the past so thanks again...
johnjen- Yes, I certainly know who you are. PM sent.....
Take that up with the degenerates. :rimshot
Little early yet. I believe Poolside indicated in Post #1 that his hoped-for ship date is around May 1.
Geeze... I go away for the weekend, crash my GS and come back. Now all the drama is gone. I was enjoying watching two guys slug it out with handbags at twenty paces!
missed the pre order thing but want one for my R1200C if possible
What the heck is going on here?
A while back (2 months?) there were posts about hotrodding and such. There was a discussion about this great new product that was going to improve the running of my 2010 R1200, unlike the thingamajig I bought from the guy in Denmark, or some European country, that only served to blacken my aluminum boxes and rack.
I ordered your cool product and went about my business. Now I glance back at this forum and there appears to be a ball busting fight going on here.
I don't want to scan back 30 pages to figure out what happened, and I don't really care as long as I'm going to end up with what I paid for. Do I now have to start worrying about pin placement and switching on the fly and hooking up other other geek oriented stuff to get this thing to work on my bike?
howdy, Mr. Cob,
let me try to use what I've learned in law school to explain why what I've highlighted in red above is so important. It's not just limited to your satisfaction with the $72 part and his liability towards you. Most people here would reasonably believe that you agreed to the terms. Poolside may even be a reasonable person and maybe he personally believes you agreed to the terms.
Let's say you install the gizzmo and go for a ride. you go flying around a corner and for some reason the throttle sticks wide open, you loose control and you and your bike go sliding across the road. Coming the other way is a bus from St. Olaf's School for the Gifted Blind. Trying to avoid running over you, the bus driver swerves, hits a tree and the bus bursts into flames, killing the bus driver, 7 nuns and 16 blind kids who just came back from willing scholarships to Yale. You get sued by the bus company, the bus driver's wife, the catholic church and the parents of each of the 16 children. During deposition, the lawyer asks you what happens and you say "I installed a gizmo I bought from Poolside, and the throttle stuck open and I lost control." So the plaintiff's lawyer adds Poolside's company to the lawsuit, thinking that maybe the part was defective and that Poolside still assumed liability for the defective part.
Now, IF you'd said 'I Agree to the Terms of the Sale', Poolside's lawyer could submit that info to the court and their company would be removed from the suit. Cost to Poolside's company: $300 for the lawyer to write the letter. But, since you didn't say those exact words, there IS a question as to whether a reasonable person would think you'd agreed to all of the terms. The judge isn't just going to say "Heck, I'm a reasonable person, and I think Mr. Cob agreed, so I'll dismiss Poolside's company from the suit." He's going to round up 12 reasonable people, stick them in a room and let them figure out what you agreed to.
So, now Poolside has to pay his lawyer to sit there through jury selection and the trial against you before even getting to the part where the plaintiff tries to prove that you didn't accept the terms of the agreement and therefore Poolside's company may still be liable. Even if the lawyer failed to prove anything and the suit is dismissed (Congrats, by the way), Poolside still had to pay his lawyer $30,000 to sit through the trial, because he may have been on the hook for all of those deaths IF the jury had found out that you didn't accept the terms.
I know that's a crazy scenario, but that's why those terms are so important. Assuming Poolside is making $20 profit on each gizmo, he's apparently made the decision that it's worth the risk of selling the product because he's limited his possible exposure to $300 in atty fees because all the attorney has to do is pull out the piece of paper that says "I accept the terms of the sale" with your signature on it. But since you didn't say THOSE EXACT WORDS, he may now be exposed for $30,000 in legal fees.
It's not just about whether Poolside would take your words as acceptance, it's whether he can prove clearly and convincingly, without any doubt, that you accepted the terms, or if he has to incur the expenses of having reasonable people determine whether you accepted the terms.
Would you willingly take on the (very slight) risk of an additional $30,000 in exposure to sell one part to one person, when you're not making any additional profit?